From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 01:51:46 2003 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:51:46 -0400 Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: ; from gregory.pleau-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 11:05:55PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20030811215146.A1351@m433> On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 11:05:55PM -0400, Gregory Pleau wrote > Now that I've missed a month of TLUG mailings, Two questions: > 2) (If this was a past topic refer to point #1) Does anyone know > of sympatico mail accounts having problems with TLUG? I've tried 5 > sympatico addresses and got no messages since early July, and would > really rather not be using a Hotmail account for this. There was a thread approx a month ago on can.internet.highspeed with Sympatico users complaining bitterly that Sympatico is now blocking *INBOUND* (yes, I said *INBOUND*) port 25, as well as outbound port 25 to/from user IP addresses. You must now use Sympatico's MTA for all email activity, unless you ssh-tunnel (or something similar) to another site. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gregory.pleau-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 02:59:41 2003 From: gregory.pleau-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gregory Pleau) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:59:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: <20030811215146.A1351-DPTsmTRGv3o@public.gmane.org> References: <20030811215146.A1351@m433> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Walter Dnes wrote: > There was a thread approx a month ago on can.internet.highspeed with > Sympatico users complaining bitterly that Sympatico is now blocking > *INBOUND* (yes, I said *INBOUND*) port 25, as well as outbound port 25 > to/from user IP addresses. You must now use Sympatico's MTA for all > email activity, unless you ssh-tunnel (or something similar) to another > site. > Haven't noticed that blocking yet. Outbound was fixed easily enough. Also don't recall getting any notice about those plans! They turned on a new 'spam blocking' feature that I promptly disabled. To quote Python: 'I told 'em we already got one....' This is one of thone times I'd hop over to one of those nice static-ip, server friendly ISPs but the idea of two weeks downtime on my broadband... Yikes. Gregory Pleau --\-- www.gregorypleau.com gregory.pleau(remove)@sym(CRA)patico.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 03:10:33 2003 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:10:33 -0400 Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> No need for downtime. Switch first - then pull the plug. Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: Gregory Pleau [mailto:gregory.pleau-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 11:00 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Walter Dnes wrote: > There was a thread approx a month ago on can.internet.highspeed with > Sympatico users complaining bitterly that Sympatico is now blocking > *INBOUND* (yes, I said *INBOUND*) port 25, as well as outbound port 25 > to/from user IP addresses. You must now use Sympatico's MTA for all > email activity, unless you ssh-tunnel (or something similar) to another > site. > Haven't noticed that blocking yet. Outbound was fixed easily enough. Also don't recall getting any notice about those plans! They turned on a new 'spam blocking' feature that I promptly disabled. To quote Python: 'I told 'em we already got one....' This is one of thone times I'd hop over to one of those nice static-ip, server friendly ISPs but the idea of two weeks downtime on my broadband... Yikes. Gregory Pleau --\-- www.gregorypleau.com gregory.pleau(remove)@sym(CRA)patico.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 03:21:14 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:21:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: <20030811215146.A1351-DPTsmTRGv3o@public.gmane.org> References: <20030811215146.A1351@m433> Message-ID: <25717.216.138.194.32.1060658474.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 11:05:55PM -0400, Gregory Pleau wrote >> Now that I've missed a month of TLUG mailings, Two questions: > >> 2) (If this was a past topic refer to point #1) Does anyone know of >> sympatico mail accounts having problems with TLUG? I've tried 5 >> sympatico addresses and got no messages since early July, and would >> really rather not be using a Hotmail account for this. > > There was a thread approx a month ago on can.internet.highspeed with > Sympatico users complaining bitterly that Sympatico is now blocking > *INBOUND* (yes, I said *INBOUND*) port 25, as well as outbound port 25 > to/from user IP addresses. You must now use Sympatico's MTA for all > email activity, unless you ssh-tunnel (or something similar) to another > site. Doesn't sympatico have some kind of deal happening with M$? Knowing what I do about some of M$'s attempts to own data, I would be concerned if your emails are regarded as private. At least be encrytion ready. -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 13:41:56 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:41:56 -0500 Subject: Zoneedit WebForward mystery In-Reply-To: ARRAY(0xa14e220) References: ARRAY(0xa14e504) Message-ID: <20030812134156.7E6D776567@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 21:20:41 -0400 (EDT), "Keith Mastin" said: > > Following instructions in the Zoneedit FAQ, I created an A record > > ww2.malcolmson.ca pointing to the external IP address of my router. > > Next I made a CNAME called zope.malcolmson.ca and pointed that to > > ww2.malcolmson.ca:9673. The problem is, while ww2.malcolmson.ca:9673 > > works, zope.malcolmson.ca returns a blank page. > > > > Zoneedit's DNS record for zope.malcolmson.ca is: > > > > Host Type Value > > zope.malcolmson.ca CNAME wf.zoneedit.com > ^---- wf.domain.tld? I thought you > wanted ww2.domain.tld? Could this have something to do with the problem? > > As Fraser mentioned, dns is not the arena to assign ports. Get the dns > straight (check with the host command or dig), and then assign the ports > using redirect as he mentioned. > > Here's your results of dig zope.malcolmson.ca right now: > ;; QUESTION SECTION: > ;zope.malcolmson.ca. IN A > > ;; ANSWER SECTION: > zope.malcolmson.ca. 7200 IN CNAME wf.zoneedit.com. > wf.zoneedit.com. 3600 IN A 207.44.244.117 > wf.zoneedit.com. 3600 IN A 69.10.136.210 > > My guess is that both machines that wf.zoneedit.com point to are dns > machines, and not your home EXT_IP. Thanks very much for these responses - I've got this solved now though the answer is kind of anticlimactic - turns out it was a bug with Zoneedit's WebForward feature. I only found out after emailing their tech support; I didn't even realize they had tech support (being a mostly free service, after all) until I'd looked through their FAQ and documentation about 25 times for why my setup, copied exactly from their example, wasn't working. As for port numbers in DNS records, the WebForward feature uses HTTP redirection. Here's an explanation: http://mail.gnhlug.org/pipermail/gnhlug-discuss/2002-December/001963.html Still, I will take Fraser's suggestion and set up Apache with Virtual Hosts 'cause it sounds neat and there are HOWTO's for using Zope behind Apache. BTW: my Linksys BEFSR41 port forwarding feature doesn't do proxy-like forwarding to specific ports; it just forwards connections to any of a range of ports to a host on the interal network. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidneyshapiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 14:05:57 2003 From: sidneyshapiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:05:57 -0400 Subject: Voip In-Reply-To: <1999FD67D1B8D311B20600805F95F34B02242C5C-FU6BPq29N1DBcVknfAZrQFn2tmvSNc4Xr4Dc/k3puynQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1999FD67D1B8D311B20600805F95F34B02242C5C@usdax003.arl.us.int.atosorigin.com> Message-ID: <003e01c360da$da5b4f20$459d9c18@main> Has anyone ever used a voip service which acts as a Toronto phone line? I have been considering trying it. Sid -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 14:44:19 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:44:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org> References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > No need for downtime. > > Switch first - then pull the plug. Unfortunately, this doesn't work unless you have 2 unique PICs. I run into this all the time. Bell pulls the DSLAM on directions from Sympatico and then plugs another one in on direction from the new provider. You might be able to get it down to 4 days if you have an insider at Bell, but I wouldn't count on it. Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet. >> There was a thread approx a month ago on can.internet.highspeed with >> Sympatico users complaining bitterly that Sympatico is now blocking >> *INBOUND* (yes, I said *INBOUND*) port 25, as well as outbound port 25 >> to/from user IP addresses. You must now use Sympatico's MTA for all >> email activity, unless you ssh-tunnel (or something similar) to >> another site. >> > Haven't noticed that blocking yet. Outbound was fixed easily enough. > Also don't recall getting any notice about those plans! They turned on a > new 'spam blocking' feature that I promptly disabled. > To quote Python: 'I told 'em we already got one....' > > This is one of thone times I'd hop over to one of those nice static-ip, > server friendly ISPs but the idea of two weeks downtime on my > broadband... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 16:20:41 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:20:41 -0500 Subject: TLUG now on Gmane Message-ID: <20030812162041.2FB8776B9A@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> We're now on Gmane! The group name is gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug and the TLUG vs. Sympatico thread is there with email addresses encrypted. I haven't tried posting from a newsreader but this should be possible after responding to a address verification email from Gmane. You only have to do this once per email, of course. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 16:38:09 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: 12 Aug 2003 12:38:09 -0400 Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: <1060706289.31888.6.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 10:44, Keith Mastin wrote: > > No need for downtime. > > > > Switch first - then pull the plug. > You might be able to get it down to 4 days if you have an insider at Bell, > Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet. If available: Sympatico -> Cable -> alt-DSL ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 19:08:45 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:08:45 -0400 Subject: OT: Source for 72pin RAM Message-ID: <200308121508.45640.fraser@wehave.net> Anyone know of stores that still sell 72pin ram? Looking for 128MB, can be 2x64 or 1x128. Thanks -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rjordan-oe7qfRrRQfdI+r1EWN2SVgpmm4y4WHC3930Pai70D+E at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 19:12:42 2003 From: rjordan-oe7qfRrRQfdI+r1EWN2SVgpmm4y4WHC3930Pai70D+E at public.gmane.org (Ross Jordan) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:12:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Source for 72pin RAM In-Reply-To: <200308121508.45640.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> from "Fraser Campbell" at Aug 12, 2003 03:08:45 PM References: <200308121508.45640.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: <200308121912.PAA16040@bacon.math.uwaterloo.ca> > > Anyone know of stores that still sell 72pin ram? Looking for 128MB, can be > 2x64 or 1x128. You usually need 72pin ram in pairs, and 128MB are fairly rare (and therefore costly). Try vfxweb.com if you don't mind used chips. -Ross -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john_mcgregor-jjFNsPSvq+iXDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 20:40:29 2003 From: john_mcgregor-jjFNsPSvq+iXDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:40:29 -0500 Subject: 72 pin ram Message-ID: <20030812204030.23494.qmail@linuxmail.org> Union Computer, 2107 Yonge St. (416 488 9293) or 255 Morningside Ave. (416 283 3042) still stocks EDO. Its $49.00 for 64 Mb. HTH John McGregor -- ______________________________________________ http://www.linuxmail.org/ Now with e-mail forwarding for only US$5.95/yr Powered by Outblaze -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 21:55:54 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:55:54 -0400 Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: <20030812215554.GH4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 10:44:19AM -0400, Keith Mastin wrote: > Unfortunately, this doesn't work unless you have 2 unique PICs. I run into > this all the time. Bell pulls the DSLAM on directions from Sympatico and > then plugs another one in on direction from the new provider. You might be > able to get it down to 4 days if you have an insider at Bell, but I > wouldn't count on it. > > Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet. Actually you can use multiple dsl providers at the same time and select based on the pppoe parameters you set. Your line is either DSL enabled or it isn't, there is no choice of which equipment it plugs into. That is the whole reason they use pppoe in the first place. It is to select the other end of your tunnel. It is possible that when you disconnect sympatico they will order disconnect even though you now have service with another provider. Perhaps the new provider will have some method of ensuring they don't do so. Ask them, since I imagine it is a common question that they probably have the answer to. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 12 22:30:07 2003 From: awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org (Drew Hamilton) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:30:07 -0400 Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: <20030812215554.GH4191-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <20030812215554.GH4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030812223007.GA28077@urd> On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 05:55:54PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > It is possible that when you disconnect sympatico they will order > disconnect even though you now have service with another provider. > Perhaps the new provider will have some method of ensuring they don't do > so. Ask them, since I imagine it is a common question that they > probably have the answer to. As long as you get your disconnection number and disconnection date from Sympatico, you can give these to your new ISP and they will put something on the order for the DSLAM so that the disconnect and the connect will happen at the same date. - awh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 03:45:01 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 23:45:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Source for 72pin RAM In-Reply-To: <200308121508.45640.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308121508.45640.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: <26771.216.138.194.32.1060746301.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > Anyone know of stores that still sell 72pin ram? Looking for 128MB, can > be 2x64 or 1x128. If your board can handle 5.5V, I have 4 64MB chips around here somewhere. They're yours if you can use them. -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 03:59:32 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 23:59:32 -0400 Subject: OT: Source for 72pin RAM In-Reply-To: <26771.216.138.194.32.1060746301.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <200308121508.45640.fraser@wehave.net> <26771.216.138.194.32.1060746301.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: <200308122359.32838.fraser@wehave.net> On August 12, 2003 11:45 pm, Keith Mastin wrote: > > Anyone know of stores that still sell 72pin ram? Looking for 128MB, can > > be 2x64 or 1x128. > > If your board can handle 5.5V, I have 4 64MB chips around here somewhere. > They're yours if you can use them. Thanks for the offer Keith, and to everyone else for their suggestions ... we've tracked some RAM down and it's now installed. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From adam-+Gnyv3l5ckaNFgfkp0FINA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 14:02:09 2003 From: adam-+Gnyv3l5ckaNFgfkp0FINA at public.gmane.org (Adam J Tworkowski) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:02:09 -0400 Subject: GTA-BUG/TLUG meeting time conflict? Message-ID: <200308131002.09242.adam@tworkowski.com> Hey, I was at the TLUG meeting last night (my second one) and there were a few of us who expressed interest in attending both TLUG and GTA-BUG but there is an obvious scheduling conflict. What's up with this? There are 28-31 days/month -- surely this conflict can be resolved. Regards, Adam -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 18:40:01 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:40:01 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: <20030812215554.GH4191-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <20030812215554.GH4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Actually you can use multiple dsl providers at the same time and select > based on the pppoe parameters you set. Your line is either DSL enabled > or it isn't, there is no choice of which equipment it plugs into. That > is the whole reason they use pppoe in the first place. It is to select > the other end of your tunnel. Isn't the DSLAM programmed to forward your stream to a certain IP, and there only ? I think it is. The end of the tunnel is not at the telco, it is the internet provider. You cannot 'go elsewhere' in-between, regardless of what pppoe or other programs try to do. Because there is no 'elsewhere' to go to. The DSLAM provides a point to point connection from your phone number's associated DSL interface at the telco to the provider. I have also never heard of someone being subscribed with more than one DSL provider on one phone line. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 20:04:56 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:04:56 -0400 Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <20030812215554.GH4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030813200456.GJ4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 09:40:01PM +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > Actually you can use multiple dsl providers at the same time and select > > based on the pppoe parameters you set. Your line is either DSL enabled > > or it isn't, there is no choice of which equipment it plugs into. That > > is the whole reason they use pppoe in the first place. It is to select > > the other end of your tunnel. > > Isn't the DSLAM programmed to forward your stream to a certain IP, and > there only ? I think it is. The end of the tunnel is not at the telco, it > is the internet provider. You cannot 'go elsewhere' in-between, regardless > of what pppoe or other programs try to do. Because there is no 'elsewhere' > to go to. The DSLAM provides a point to point connection from your phone > number's associated DSL interface at the telco to the provider. I have > also never heard of someone being subscribed with more than one DSL > provider on one phone line. Well when a friend of mine tried to subscribe to DSL.ca and after two weeks still hadn't got a modem and gave up and went on to EOL.ca the line had already been digital service enabled, so when he picked up the modem from EOL, plugged it in and filled in the settings from EOL, it worked right away. Then two days later it stopped, and he called EOL who said they were still waiting for bell to activate the service and that as far as they were concerned he didn't have service yet and were not yet billing him. A few days later the order from EOL went through at bell and they reconnected the line to the DSLAM and it started working again. So as far as I can see it, you are either connected to the big DSLAM with everybody else in the area or you are not, and which provider you get depends on the PPPoE settings. Otherwise why would you have to include the provider in the PPPoE settings at all? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 20:00:12 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <20030812215554.GH4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <63329.64.228.103.179.1060804812.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > Isn't the DSLAM programmed to forward your stream to a certain IP, and > there only ? I think it is. The end of the tunnel is not at the telco, > it is the internet provider. You cannot 'go elsewhere' in-between, > regardless of what pppoe or other programs try to do. Because there is > no 'elsewhere' to go to. The DSLAM provides a point to point connection > from your phone number's associated DSL interface at the telco to the > provider. I have also never heard of someone being subscribed with more > than one DSL provider on one phone line. That's basically been my experience too. I do a lot of dsl setups or changeovers from sympatico/aibn and have not yet been able to get the downtime to less than 4 days. The providers always say that Bell needs to provision the line for digital for their system rather than just switch from one provider to another, so this suggests to me that the end point for the ppp is the gateway at the provider. As for having more than one provider on the same line, never heard of it, although I have had 2 lines sharing the same account info when moving. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 20:20:08 2003 From: awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org (Drew Hamilton) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:20:08 -0400 Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: <20030813200456.GJ4191-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <20030812215554.GH4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20030813200456.GJ4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030813202008.GB30978@urd> On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 04:04:56PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > So as far as I can see it, you are either connected to the big DSLAM > with everybody else in the area or you are not, and which provider you > get depends on the PPPoE settings. Otherwise why would you have to > include the provider in the PPPoE settings at all? I think that at least Sympatico is (or was) on different DSLAM hardware than the other ISPs that use Nexxia are. Something about the differences in the implementation of ATM on the card. I don't know much more than that, as I'm not an expert. So switching between Sympatico and a private ISP might indeed be a problem, but switching between private ISP's should (as I will find out firsthand on August 22nd). - awh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sergey.kuznetsov-SuVT4Wdm/UHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 20:30:14 2003 From: sergey.kuznetsov-SuVT4Wdm/UHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Serge Kuznetsov) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:30:14 -0400 Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <20030812215554.GH4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <020801c361d9$b3b72e70$9c094d8e@wcom.ca> > > On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > Actually you can use multiple dsl providers at the same time and select > > based on the pppoe parameters you set. Your line is either DSL enabled > > or it isn't, there is no choice of which equipment it plugs into. That > > is the whole reason they use pppoe in the first place. It is to select > > the other end of your tunnel. > > Isn't the DSLAM programmed to forward your stream to a certain IP, and > there only ? I think it is. The end of the tunnel is not at the telco, it > is the internet provider. You cannot 'go elsewhere' in-between, regardless DSLAM sends data to specific ATM PVC. That configuration stored on Bell's profile configuration server. And then DSL router of specified ISP assigns the specific IP and route for that PVC. > of what pppoe or other programs try to do. Because there is no 'elsewhere' > to go to. The DSLAM provides a point to point connection from your phone > number's associated DSL interface at the telco to the provider. I have > also never heard of someone being subscribed with more than one DSL > provider on one phone line. > Sympatico modems mainly such a Ethernet extenders, based in DSL-like technology. It's not real DSL. IMHO, last modems recognize two modes, DSL and Ethernet extension. I could say I well know how it works from ISP side. =) All the Best! Serge. ================================ Serge Kuznetsov Network Programmer - Analyst MCI Canada Direct: +1 416 216 5318 Fax: +1 416 368 6701 Web: http://www.mci.com/ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 21:12:47 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: debian/woody powerpc + modem Message-ID: Hi all, I have debian/woody release up and running on my powerpc. I would like to get my modem working with linux; it works with the MacOS ppp. I have two problems: minicom doesn't work (lacks an include .h file - likely debian doesn't include this in the proper directory) and I don't know how to use chat. So either way, I'm sunk. All I ask is a simple dialout chat script to check that the lights flash and the external modem picks up hook. I can write the perl wrapper to cycle through the /dev/ttyS*... that is unless anyone knows which /dev/ port the modem connects through on a mac. max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 21:18:42 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:18:42 -0400 Subject: debian/woody powerpc + modem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030813211842.GL4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 05:12:47PM -0400, Max Blanco wrote: > I have debian/woody release up and running on my powerpc. I would like to > get my modem working with linux; it works with the MacOS ppp. I have two > problems: minicom doesn't work (lacks an include .h file - likely debian > doesn't include this in the proper directory) and I don't know how to use > chat. So either way, I'm sunk. > > All I ask is a simple dialout chat script to check that the lights flash > and the external modem picks up hook. I can write the perl wrapper to > cycle through the /dev/ttyS*... that is unless anyone knows which /dev/ > port the modem connects through on a mac. Did you try running pppconfig? Now it is possible that on a modern mac the modem is a software modem (aka winmodem style), but I really have no idea. The ibook3 apparently uses a conexant software modem chip, which works OK with the appropriate non free drivers installed. Perhaps output of lspci would help identify the modem. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 21:22:01 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:22:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: scancode/loadkeys howto:"apple"/"windows"/"mouseover-picklist"/"power-recycle" keys? In-Reply-To: <20030807202403.GU29018-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20030807202403.GU29018@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hi Lennart/All, I haven't been too successful... more below On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 09:54:01AM -0400, Max Blanco wrote: > > Yesterday, Lennart told me how to "loadkey". > > > > How do I find out what label (alt/ctrl/etc) is given to the "apple" key, > > and by extension, the "windows" and "mouseover/picklist" keys that do > > nothing? > > > > The "unknown scancode e0 5e" is returned when I press the "power-recycle" > > toggle key on my mac. I would like to remap/loadkey this to > > "shutdown -h now", or "ctrlaltdel" in /etc/inittab language. > > > > Is this possible? > > Certainly, you just have to tell the kernel what keycode to send for > that unknown scancode, and then map what that key should do. It can be > done, but I haven't got time to look it up right now. > I thought keycodes were two hex digit long. I'm mystified by the four digits "e0 5e". Suppose I figure this out, I will know how to refer to the key. I will not know how to map the key to a function calling up "ctrlaltdel"; I will only know how to map the key to such madeup functions as "Console_1". Please help. > The howto on linux keyboard stuff on one of the many linux howto sites > should shed some light on at least part of it. > I have tried... thanks, max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 21:24:17 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:24:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: debian/woody powerpc + modem In-Reply-To: <20030813211842.GL4191-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20030813211842.GL4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Did you try running pppconfig? > Maybe I should, but I haven't any use for ppp. > Now it is possible that on a modern mac the modem is a software modem > (aka winmodem style), but I really have no idea. > I have an external modem. Plus it's really old. max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 21:55:14 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:55:14 -0400 Subject: debian/woody powerpc + modem In-Reply-To: References: <20030813211842.GL4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030813215514.GN4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 05:24:17PM -0400, Max Blanco wrote: > Maybe I should, but I haven't any use for ppp. Ah. OK. > I have an external modem. > Plus it's really old. Well I would imagine that Linux uses /dev/ttyS0 - ttyS3 for serial ports. What does 'dmesg |grep tty' show you? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 22:58:25 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:58:25 -0400 Subject: scancode/loadkeys howto:"apple"/"windows"/"mouseover-picklist"/"power-recycle" keys? In-Reply-To: References: <20030807202403.GU29018@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030813225825.GO4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 05:22:01PM -0400, Max Blanco wrote: > I thought keycodes were two hex digit long. I'm mystified by the four > digits "e0 5e". Supposedly keycodes 112 - 127 are unused so you can do: According to dumpkeys on my system though, everything up to 119 is used setkeycodes e05e 120 You can then use key 120 for something in loadkeys. To make it a modifier key I guess you have to look at how alt and such are defined and do something similar. > Suppose I figure this out, I will know how to refer to the key. > > I will not know how to map the key to a function calling up "ctrlaltdel"; > I will only know how to map the key to such madeup functions as > "Console_1". Well 'Boot' is the codeword for reboot it seems. There are keywords for a few things, but I have no idea if you can add any. > Please help. > > I have tried... Well I can't figure out how to create a meta key, but maybe I just haven't looked hard enough. Nor have I found how to create a power off button on the keyboard. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 02:51:13 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 22:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: no luck yet...still Re:debian/woody powerpc + modem In-Reply-To: <20030813215514.GN4191-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20030813215514.GN4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thanks Lennart(All)... but no luck yet. see below: On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 05:24:17PM -0400, Max Blanco wrote: > > Maybe I should, but I haven't any use for ppp. > > Ah. OK. > pppconfig gave me "set modem manually" as the only option. 8( > Well I would imagine that Linux uses /dev/ttyS0 - ttyS3 for serial > ports. What does 'dmesg |grep tty' show you? > bingo: tty00 at somehex1 (irq = 15) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = modem tty01 at somehex2 (irq = 16) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = printer tried tty00 and tty01. no luck. so I wrote a simple script that tried ttyS* tty0* cua* to no avail. the modem is on. the modem is plugged in to the line. the modem works well in macos. what gives??? any help appreciated. max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bobbrews-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 10:24:55 2003 From: bobbrews-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org (Bob Brewster) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:24:55 Subject: Sprint CA Message-ID: <200308141426.h7EEQw229272@server26.ilap.com> Hi All: Have got both Mandrake 7.0 and Red Hat 7.2 operating well with my present IP. Because I have dispatched Bell as my local phone company and changed over to Sprint Canada I am trying to setup and internet connection with Sprint. Sprint Tec Support is NO help at all. DLC and Echo are not available to me because I am not with Bell. If anyone on the list uses Sprint Canada as their IP, could you send me a copy of your Sprint Linux Login Script. I have been unable to get a connect with Mandrake. I get an Authentication Failure. With Redhat 7.2 I get garbage after a connect. I'm using KPPP with Mandrake and KPPP and RedHat Dialer with RedHat. Many Thanks, Bob Bob Brewster O.S.L. Toronto, Ontario, CANADA E-Mail bobbrews-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org E-Mail bobbrews-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 18:00:14 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: /etc/hosts Message-ID: Hi All, I have an unconnected local subnet. I have one machine on it so far. I wonder what will be the effect if I have two entries in the /etc/hosts file for the same machine? 192.168.1.9 johannes johaness.blanco.org 192.168.1.9 geeklog geeklog.net Is this kosher? resolveip seems to find both entries. max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 19:05:30 2003 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:05:30 -0400 Subject: /etc/hosts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F3BDD7A.305@alteeve.com> It is certainly unusual but I don't see it being a problem. It is I guess sort of like have two or more DNS entries pointing to the same IP address. Madison Max Blanco wrote: > Hi All, > > I have an unconnected local subnet. > I have one machine on it so far. > I wonder what will be the effect if I have two entries in the /etc/hosts > file for the same machine? > > 192.168.1.9 johannes johaness.blanco.org > 192.168.1.9 geeklog geeklog.net > > Is this kosher? > resolveip seems to find both entries. > > max. > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 19:18:28 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:18:28 -0400 Subject: /etc/hosts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200308141518.28916.fraser@wehave.net> On Thursday 14 August 2003 14:00, Max Blanco wrote: > I wonder what will be the effect if I have two entries in the /etc/hosts > file for the same machine? > > 192.168.1.9 johannes johaness.blanco.org > 192.168.1.9 geeklog geeklog.net > > Is this kosher? If it works, it works but it would probably be more correct (according to my reading of the manpage) to do thsi: 192.168.1.9 johaness.blanco.org johannes geeklog geeklog.net That is this: IP CANONICAL_NAME ALIASES Regards -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 14 19:36:19 2003 From: billt-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg at public.gmane.org (billt-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:36:19 -0400 Subject: GTA-BUG/TLUG meeting time conflict? In-Reply-To: <200308131002.09242.adam-+Gnyv3l5ckaNFgfkp0FINA@public.gmane.org>; from adam-+Gnyv3l5ckaNFgfkp0FINA@public.gmane.org on Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 10:02:09AM -0400 References: <200308131002.09242.adam@tworkowski.com> Message-ID: <20030814153619.A28939@diamond.ss.org> To start off with, I have never been to GTA-BUG and don't know the format of the meeting, so I don't know how easily it would be to change there meeting. As for moving TLUG it could be done, but not necessarily quickly. We have arranged meeting rooms, at U of T for nearly 5 years now based on our predictable schedule. To change schedules, will make getting a room more difficult. Also, I believe there is politics, involved that I am unaware of, nor care too know. Bill Thanis On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 10:02:09AM -0400, Adam J Tworkowski wrote: > Hey, > > I was at the TLUG meeting last night (my second one) and there were a few of > us who expressed interest in attending both TLUG and GTA-BUG but there is an > obvious scheduling conflict. What's up with this? There are 28-31 > days/month -- surely this conflict can be resolved. > > Regards, > > Adam > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 16:01:12 2003 From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel (Free Thinker at Large) Gagne) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:01:12 -0400 Subject: Last chance for Tech TV interview Message-ID: <200308161201.12340.mggagne@salmar.com> Hello everyone, Please forgive this momentary brag and gratuitous self-promotion, but given that it is somewhat about Linux, I thought some of you might be interested . As some of you already know, I was down at LinuxWorld Expo in San Francisco launching my new book (among other things). While there, I was also interviewed on Tech TV's "The Screen Savers" where they wanted me to chat about "Moving to Linux" (both the idea and the book). The interview was originally aired on Monday night's show, but it is going to be on one last time this Sunday at 11:00 am (EST). If you don't get Tech TV, you can watch the interview online as well (albeit in a slightly lower quality format). Just click on the following link, look for "Video Highlights" and click "Move to Linux". http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/linux/story/0,24330,3495009,00.html When my new book was launched at LinuxWorld, I also did a short radio interview which is also available online. It's in MP3 format and you can find it at the following address. http://www.sys-con.com/linux/linuxworldradio/marcel.mp3 Thanks for letting me brag ). Do take care out there. -- Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn? Note: This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered. Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/ Author : "Moving to Linux: Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!" Also by Marcel : Linux System Administration, A User's Guide Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.salmar.com/marcel/wftllugform.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 16:30:38 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: recent CERT advisory Message-ID: <11817.216.138.194.32.1061051438.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Has anyone else here seen this? Might be a good time to check your software logs, see if anything might be affected. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- CERT Advisory CA-2003-21 GNU Project FTP Server Compromise Original issue date: August 13, 2003 Last revised: -- Source: CERT/CC A complete revision history is at the end of this file. Overview The CERT/CC has received a report that the system housing the primary FTP servers for the GNU software project was compromised. I. Description The GNU Project, principally sponsored by the Free Software Foundation (FSF), produces a variety of freely available software. The CERT/CC has learned that the system housing the primary FTP servers for the GNU software project, gnuftp.gnu.org, was root compromised by an intruder. The more common host names of ftp.gnu.org and alpha.gnu.org are aliases for the same compromised system. The compromise is reported to have occurred in March of 2003. The FSF has released an announcement describing the incident. Because this system serves as a centralized archive of popular software, the insertion of malicious code into the distributed software is a serious threat. As the above announcement indicates, however, no source code distributions are believed to have been maliciously modified at this time. II. Impact The potential exists for an intruder to have inserted back doors, Trojan horses, or other malicious code into the source code distributions of software housed on the compromised system. III. Solution We encourage sites using the GNU software obtained from the compromised system to verify the integrity of their distribution. Sites that mirror the source code are encouraged to verify the integrity of their sources. We also encourage users to inspect any and all other software that may have been downloaded from the compromised site. Note that it is not always sufficient to rely on the timestamps or file sizes when trying to determine whether or not a copy of the file has been modified. Verifying checksums The FSF has produced PGP-signed lists of known-good MD5 hashes of the software packages housed on the compromised server. These lists can be found at ftp://ftp.gnu.org/before-2003-08-01.md5sums.asc ftp://alpha.gnu.org/before-2003-08-01.md5sums.asc Note that both of these files and the announcement above are signed by Bradley Kuhn, Executive Director of the FSF, with the following PGP key: pub 1024D/DB41B387 1999-12-09 Bradley M. Kuhn Key fingerprint = 4F40 645E 46BE 0131 48F9 92F6 E775 E324 DB41 B387 uid Bradley M. Kuhn (bkuhn99) uid Bradley M. Kuhn sub 2048g/75CA9CB3 1999-12-09 The CERT/CC believes this key to be valid. As a matter of good security practice, the CERT/CC encourages users to verify, whenever possible, the integrity of downloaded software. For more information, see IN-2001-06. Appendix A. - Vendor Information This appendix contains information provided by vendors for this advisory. As vendors report new information to the CERT/CC, we will update this section and note the changes in our revision history. If a particular vendor is not listed below, we have not received their comments. Free Software Foundation The current files on alpha.gnu.org and ftp.gnu.org as of 2003-08-02 have all been verified, and their md5sums and the reasons we believe the md5sums can be trusted are in: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/before-2003-08-01.md5sums.asc ftp://alpha.gnu.org/before-2003-08-01.md5sums.asc We are updating that file and the site as we confirm good md5sums of additional files. It is theoretically possible that downloads between March 2003 and July 2003 might have been source-compromised, so we encourage everyone to re-download sources and compare with the current copies for files on the site. Appendix B. References * FSF announcement regarding the incident - ftp://ftp.gnu.org/MISSING-FILES.README * CERT Incident Note IN-2001-06 - http://www.cert.org/incident_notes/IN-2001-06.html _________________________________________________________________ The CERT/CC thanks Bradley Kuhn and Brett Smith of the Free Software Foundation for their timely assistance in this matter. _________________________________________________________________ Feedback can be directed to the author: Chad Dougherty. ______________________________________________________________________ This document is available from: http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2003-21.html ______________________________________________________________________ CERT/CC Contact Information Email: cert-etTNj8cnB6w at public.gmane.org Phone: +1 412-268-7090 (24-hour hotline) Fax: +1 412-268-6989 Postal address: CERT Coordination Center Software Engineering Institute Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh PA 15213-3890 U.S.A. CERT/CC personnel answer the hotline 08:00-17:00 EST(GMT-5) / EDT(GMT-4) Monday through Friday; they are on call for emergencies during other hours, on U.S. holidays, and on weekends. Using encryption We strongly urge you to encrypt sensitive information sent by email. Our public PGP key is available from http://www.cert.org/CERT_PGP.key If you prefer to use DES, please call the CERT hotline for more information. Getting security information CERT publications and other security information are available from our web site http://www.cert.org/ To subscribe to the CERT mailing list for advisories and bulletins, send email to majordomo-etTNj8cnB6zhvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org Please include in the body of your message subscribe cert-advisory * "CERT" and "CERT Coordination Center" are registered in the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. ______________________________________________________________________ NO WARRANTY Any material furnished by Carnegie Mellon University and the Software Engineering Institute is furnished on an "as is" basis. Carnegie Mellon University makes no warranties of any kind, either expressed or implied as to any matter including, but not limited to, warranty of fitness for a particular purpose or merchantability, exclusivity or results obtained from use of the material. Carnegie Mellon University does not make any warranty of any kind with respect to freedom from patent, trademark, or copyright infringement. ______________________________________________________________________ Conditions for use, disclaimers, and sponsorship information Copyright 2002 Carnegie Mellon University. Revision History August 13, 2003: Initial release -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5.8 iQCVAwUBPzqwFWjtSoHZUTs5AQGN4AQAvL/u+S+FpkNWtBH/fe9DCLJQM21I/dzt QPU0prMxTq53ntvTOAth+yFPtbcbeDaWuLHakju0mL4OSU0Fp+VsXbXnF5ypE+0r S5mHpMxSmvPBPBNTIMQUGybEKK783P9Ty2lhXxawEW9JbdgMOY44clo2VIupgxuZ OeyQrFbsq54= =/72G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 16 19:14:46 2003 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 15:14:46 -0400 Subject: Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom Message-ID: <20030816151446.A6785@leftmind.net> (a book by Cory Doctorow) 1. The story opens in the GSU pub, a venue well-known to TLUGgers. 2. You can download copies from http://www.craphound.com/down/ and TLUGgers aren't likely to turn down something free. Disclaimers include the fact that I haven't read past the first few paragraphs myself, but it looks like being a good story. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 08:48:30 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 04:48:30 -0400 Subject: man window of text to terminal Message-ID: <1061196509.2471.33.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> Hi all, Is there an easy way (ctrl-) to have the displayed "window" of 'man' to be dumped to the terminal. eg. $ man man [ctrl+d] [ctrl+d] OPTIONS -C config_file Specify the configuration file to use; the default is /etc/man.conf. (See man.conf(5).) . .. ... .. . -a By default, man will exit after displaying the first manual page it finds. Using this option forces man to display all the manual pages that match name, not just the first. $ Does what I am thinking of make sense? Is there another way? Cheers, Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 19:50:06 2003 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 17 Aug 2003 15:50:06 -0400 Subject: man window of text to terminal In-Reply-To: <1061196509.2471.33.camel-kJIXitw1kzNlRO5chPstXzJtLkR7yuzc@public.gmane.org> References: <1061196509.2471.33.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: Lloyd D Budd writes: > Hi all, > > Is there an easy way (ctrl-) to have the displayed "window" of 'man' > to be dumped to the terminal. > > eg. > $ man man > [ctrl+d] > [ctrl+d] [snip] I'm not sure that I understand the question. Does one of these do what you want? man -P cat man man -P 'col -b' man -- tim writer starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 20:06:19 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 16:06:19 -0400 Subject: man window of text to terminal In-Reply-To: References: <1061196509.2471.33.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: <1061150778.2473.787.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> On Sun, 2003-08-17 at 15:50, Tim Writer wrote: > Lloyd D Budd writes: > > > Hi all, > > > > Is there an easy way (ctrl-) to have the displayed "window" of 'man' > > to be dumped to the terminal. > > > > eg. > > $ man man > > [ctrl+d] > > [ctrl+d] > > [snip] > > I'm not sure that I understand the question. Does one of these do what you > want? > > man -P cat man > man -P 'col -b' man Hi Tim, That works well thanks! I am selfish. Ideally, I only want the displayed piece of the man entry present in the window... ie when I scroll up, I would peruse less info. Cheers, Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 21:04:08 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:04:08 -0400 Subject: bash history Message-ID: <1061154248.2474.951.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> Hi, >From time to time I wonder how 'history' works, and what is the mechanism for the many bash sessions making it into '.bash_history'? Today, I was reminded of my previous wondering as 'history' corrupted my session's display -- 'reset' resolved. I find the most useful history related command to be: [Ctrl]+r :: reverse incremental search I just now found HISTIGNORE. I am aware of bash-completion. It seems that one could do a lot more with this thinking. Any smart history search/modification tools out there? Cheers, Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 02:42:26 2003 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:42:26 -0400 Subject: USB video capture devices In-Reply-To: <3F3D36E1.615AFCC4-Wuw85uim5zDR7s880joybQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3F3D36E1.615AFCC4@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3F403D12.8080008@rogers.com> > wanted to > interface the cameras with inexpensive usb video capture cables. > Have you had any luck? Nope... I was only interested in doing high quality captures. However, I could swear I saw something USB based recently that said it could handle captures well. Can't remember where, try College st. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 02:49:42 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: update on + ?: /etc/apache/httpd.conf + Re:/etc/hosts In-Reply-To: <200308141518.28916.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308141518.28916.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: Hi Fraser/Maddison, Thanks for your answers. I had had two ip entries in my /etc/hosts file on my local subnet machine. While resolveip worked fine, ping did not; the second/aliased address returned "Network unreachable". I then went with Fraser's suggestion, appended below, in which he suggests that aliases all be grouped together on the same /etc/hosts line. That worked, which allowed me to test multiple apache httpd virtual host addresses. I want to note this because the documentation at httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/vhosts does not mention this at all. Does this make sense to linux, or have I crossed wires unwittingly? (vhosts + /etc/hosts) cheers, max. On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Thursday 14 August 2003 14:00, Max Blanco wrote: > > > I wonder what will be the effect if I have two entries in the /etc/hosts > > file for the same machine? > > > > 192.168.1.9 johannes johaness.blanco.org > > 192.168.1.9 geeklog geeklog.net > > > > Is this kosher? > > If it works, it works but it would probably be more correct (according to my > reading of the manpage) to do thsi: > > 192.168.1.9 johaness.blanco.org johannes geeklog geeklog.net > > That is this: > > IP CANONICAL_NAME ALIASES > > Regards > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 03:09:36 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 23:09:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: desparate cry for help, was Re:debian/woody powerpc + modem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Max Blanco wrote: > > Well I would imagine that Linux uses /dev/ttyS0 - ttyS3 for serial > > ports. What does 'dmesg |grep tty' show you? > > > > bingo: > tty00 at somehex1 (irq = 15) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = modem > tty01 at somehex2 (irq = 16) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = printer > > the modem is on. > the modem is plugged in to the line. > the modem works well in macos. > I have discovered 'setserial' and z8530-utils.deb... (kernel seems not to recognize the device tty00 which it listed in dmesg:) # setserial /dev/tty00 Cannot get serial info: Inappropriate ioctl for device (/dev/ttyS0 is recognized as the somehex1, irq=15 address:) # setserial /dev/ttyS0 /dev/ttyS0 somehex1 UART unknown irq=15 I think I am close here. I connect /dev/modem -> /dev/ttyS0 and try my chat file to no avail. I have no response when I send "ATZ (OK) ATDT 4165551212". I should add that the macos has no trouble with ppp dialout. The setserial (+ manpage) does not recognize "z8530" or "8530" as valid entries to UART. I should add that my machine is a powermac 750/267mHz/OldWorld machine if anyone thinks it would be useful administrivia. TIA, max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 04:37:13 2003 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 18 Aug 2003 00:37:13 -0400 Subject: bash history In-Reply-To: <1061154248.2474.951.camel-kJIXitw1kzNlRO5chPstXzJtLkR7yuzc@public.gmane.org> References: <1061154248.2474.951.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: Lloyd D Budd writes: > Hi, > > >From time to time I wonder how 'history' works, and what is the > mechanism for the many bash sessions making it into '.bash_history'? > > Today, I was reminded of my previous wondering as 'history' corrupted > my session's display -- 'reset' resolved. > > I find the most useful history related command to be: > [Ctrl]+r :: reverse incremental search > > I just now found HISTIGNORE. > > I am aware of bash-completion. It seems that one could do a lot more > with this thinking. Any smart history search/modification tools out > there? The Z shell (zsh) is much better at this sort of stuff than bash. -- tim writer starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 07:02:39 2003 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 03:02:39 -0400 Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: <20030811215146.A1351-DPTsmTRGv3o@public.gmane.org> References: <20030811215146.A1351@m433> Message-ID: <200308180302.41232.marc@lijour.net> Le 11 Ao??t 2003 21:51, Walter Dnes a ??crit : > On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 11:05:55PM -0400, Gregory Pleau wrote > > > Now that I've missed a month of TLUG mailings, Two questions: > > > > 2) (If this was a past topic refer to point #1) Does anyone know > > of sympatico mail accounts having problems with TLUG? I've tried 5 > > sympatico addresses and got no messages since early July, and would > > really rather not be using a Hotmail account for this. What kind of account was it? I've seen a lot of advertising for their business package -that may authorize this though personal would not...? > > There was a thread approx a month ago on can.internet.highspeed with > Sympatico users complaining bitterly that Sympatico is now blocking > *INBOUND* (yes, I said *INBOUND*) port 25, as well as outbound port 25 > to/from user IP addresses. You must now use Sympatico's MTA for all > email activity, unless you ssh-tunnel (or something similar) to another > site. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 13:59:51 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 08:59:51 -0500 Subject: More TLUG on Gmane [was TLUG vs Sympatico] In-Reply-To: <200308180302.41232.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20030811215146.A1351@m433> <200308180302.41232.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20030818135951.851886B6FC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 03:02:39 -0400, "Marc Lijour" said: > Le 11 Ao?t 2003 21:51, Walter Dnes a ?crit : > > On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 11:05:55PM -0400, Gregory Pleau wrote > > > > > Now that I've missed a month of TLUG mailings, Two questions: You haven't missed a whole month of mailings: TLUG is now on Gmane and you can read posts back to Aug 11th via web or news: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug Note the group name is "tolug" (tlug was taken). Only the last 600 messages are available via the web interface. The whole archive is available via news. We now need someone to upload to Gmane prior TLUG archives in mbox format. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 19:28:06 2003 From: cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Chris MacDonald) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:28:06 -0400 Subject: More TLUG on Gmane [was TLUG vs Sympatico] In-Reply-To: <20030818135951.851886B6FC-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20030811215146.A1351@m433> <200308180302.41232.marc@lijour.net> <20030818135951.851886B6FC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20030818192806.GA20414@anarchy.ca> On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 08:59:51AM -0500, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > We now need someone to upload to Gmane prior TLUG archives in mbox > format. I have 3 years of tlug, around 36,000 messages, sitting around in mbox format somewhere. I can upload it as soon as my dsl is fixed. -cgm. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 17 17:30:44 2003 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 13:30:44 -0400 Subject: man window of text to terminal In-Reply-To: <1061196509.2471.33.camel-kJIXitw1kzNlRO5chPstXzJtLkR7yuzc@public.gmane.org>; from lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org on Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 04:48:30 -0400 References: <1061196509.2471.33.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: <20030817173044.GA1513@pc.mtmk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On 2003.08.18 04:48 Lloyd D Budd wrote: > Is there an easy way (ctrl-) to have the displayed "window" of > 'man' > to be dumped to the terminal. How about 'nroff -man man '? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 20:35:44 2003 From: wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (WK) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:35:44 -0400 Subject: OT: sympatico blocking tcp port 135 Message-ID: <3F4138A0.5020405@halfmind.com> This is off topic. Anyone notice that sympatico starts blocking outgoing tcp port 135 recently? Thanks. wk. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 21:00:38 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 18 Aug 2003 17:00:38 -0400 Subject: OT: sympatico blocking tcp port 135 In-Reply-To: <3F4138A0.5020405-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <3F4138A0.5020405@halfmind.com> Message-ID: WK writes: > Anyone notice that sympatico starts blocking outgoing tcp port 135 recently? It probably has something to do with that recent M$ virus [Blaster?]. I believe that it was using ports 135 and 137 to spread. -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 21:05:06 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:05:06 -0400 Subject: no luck yet...still Re:debian/woody powerpc + modem In-Reply-To: References: <20030813215514.GN4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030818210506.GA24891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 10:51:13PM -0400, Max Blanco wrote: > > Thanks Lennart(All)... but no luck yet. see below: > > On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2003 at 05:24:17PM -0400, Max Blanco wrote: > > > Maybe I should, but I haven't any use for ppp. > > > > Ah. OK. > > > > pppconfig gave me "set modem manually" as the only option. > 8( > > > Well I would imagine that Linux uses /dev/ttyS0 - ttyS3 for serial > > ports. What does 'dmesg |grep tty' show you? > > > > bingo: > tty00 at somehex1 (irq = 15) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = modem > tty01 at somehex2 (irq = 16) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = printer > > tried tty00 and tty01. no luck. > so I wrote a simple script that tried ttyS* tty0* cua* to no avail. > > the modem is on. > the modem is plugged in to the line. > the modem works well in macos. Perhaps using some setserial command to setup /dev/ttyS0 on the hex and irq given would work. Don't usually bother specifying the uart or anything like that. Might work. /usr/share/doc/setserial/ might have useful hints in it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 21:11:36 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:11:36 -0400 Subject: Sprint CA In-Reply-To: <200308141426.h7EEQw229272-0tInGMXAv0fa0pkJTlbQzwC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <200308141426.h7EEQw229272@server26.ilap.com> Message-ID: <20030818211136.GC24891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 14, 2003 at 10:24:55AM +0000, Bob Brewster wrote: > Have got both Mandrake 7.0 and Red Hat 7.2 operating well with > my present IP. > > Because I have dispatched Bell as my local phone company and changed > over to Sprint Canada I am trying to setup and internet connection > with Sprint. > > Sprint Tec Support is NO help at all. > > DLC and Echo are not available to me because I am not with Bell. > > If anyone on the list uses Sprint Canada as their IP, could you > send me a copy of your Sprint Linux Login Script. > > I have been unable to get a connect with Mandrake. > I get an Authentication Failure. > > With Redhat 7.2 I get garbage after a connect. > > I'm using KPPP with Mandrake and KPPP and RedHat Dialer with > RedHat. Have you tried using PAP authentication and not doing any scripting at all beyond the default dial number and connect stuff? That is what all sensible systems use today since that is what windows expects. The old login and password prompts are so obsolete for ppp. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 22:11:20 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:11:20 -0500 Subject: More TLUG on Gmane [was TLUG vs Sympatico] In-Reply-To: <20030818192806.GA20414-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <20030811215146.A1351@m433> <200308180302.41232.marc@lijour.net> <20030818135951.851886B6FC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> <20030818192806.GA20414@anarchy.ca> Message-ID: <20030818221120.BC64A72788@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:28:06 -0400, "Chris MacDonald" said: > On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 08:59:51AM -0500, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > > We now need someone to upload to Gmane prior TLUG archives in mbox > > format. > > I have 3 years of tlug, around 36,000 messages, sitting around in mbox > format somewhere. I can upload it as soon as my dsl is fixed. Great! Here's a link to instructions on how to do this. http://gmane.org/import.php ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 00:08:03 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 19:08:03 -0500 Subject: bash history In-Reply-To: ARRAY(0xa15ec70) References: ARRAY(0x9e2f434) Message-ID: <20030819000803.2F3EB77030@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On 18 Aug 2003 00:37:13 -0400, "Tim Writer" said: > Lloyd D Budd writes: > > > Hi, > > > > >From time to time I wonder how 'history' works, and what is the > > mechanism for the many bash sessions making it into '.bash_history'? > > > > Today, I was reminded of my previous wondering as 'history' corrupted > > my session's display -- 'reset' resolved. > > > > I find the most useful history related command to be: > > [Ctrl]+r :: reverse incremental search > > > > I just now found HISTIGNORE. > > > > I am aware of bash-completion. It seems that one could do a lot more > > with this thinking. Any smart history search/modification tools out > > there? > > The Z shell (zsh) is much better at this sort of stuff than bash. True. Zsh is the ultimate interactive shell. It's SHARE_HISTORY option does the session history merging you're asking about. In bash, '!' starts a history expansion: '!!' recalls the last command line, '!$' recalls the final argument of the last command line, and ^foo^bar substitutes bar for foo in the previous line. See the bash man page for more like this. But Zsh does these and more: pressing TAB after entering one of these sequences does the history expansion in the current line. Adding a :h causes only the 'head' of a path (everything up to the final '/') to be substituted, :t the 'tail' (filename), and :r the filename with any suffix removed, e.g. %~>less /usr/share/doc/thing/README %~>cd !$:h %/usr/share/doc/thing> Since you asked about completion, zsh has special command-specific completion features like: cd ==> lists directories tar xzvf ==> lists only files ending in .gz or .tgz ls - ==> a list of all possible argument to ls dpkg -L ==> a list of installed debian packages scp localfile me-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org: ==> Very cool: does remote path completion!! More info: Linux Magazine Articles (see columns for May, June, July 2002) http://www.linux-mag.com/depts/power.html Other cool things in bash and zsh http://www.jpeek.com/talks/ukuug_20000720/ Adam's Zsh & Shell pages http://adamspiers.org/computing/zsh/ Zsh Fan Page http://www.princeton.edu/~kmccarty/zsh.html IBM Developer Works article. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-z.html?open&l=335,t=gr,p=Z-Shell Zsh User Guide (most comprehensive info) http://zsh.sunsite.dk/Guide/zshguide.html ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 02:08:28 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: sympatico blocking tcp port 135 In-Reply-To: References: <3F4138A0.5020405@halfmind.com> Message-ID: <16114.216.138.194.32.1061258908.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > WK writes: >> Anyone notice that sympatico starts blocking outgoing tcp port 135 >> recently? > > It probably has something to do with that recent M$ virus [Blaster?]. I > believe that it was using ports 135 and 137 to spread. ...mblast uses tftp to spread... I wish that all isp's would block 135:137 though... so many hits on those ports. -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 04:20:55 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 00:20:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: sympatico blocking tcp port 135 In-Reply-To: <16114.216.138.194.32.1061258908.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <3F4138A0.5020405@halfmind.com> <16114.216.138.194.32.1061258908.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Keith Mastin wrote: > I wish that all isp's would block 135:137 though... so many hits on those > ports. Although I can sympathise, widescale "carte-blanche" blocking of ports is considered pretty heavy handed, and with good reason. People may actually have a legitmate use of those ports over the 'net (which may not even be related to SMB/CIFS at all). To my knowledge the only widescale blocking of specific ports that has ever been down was just recently when UDP/1434 was blocked on core routers for a few days to stop the SQL-Slammer worm. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 12:11:42 2003 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 08:11:42 -0400 Subject: Distributions' differences Message-ID: <4B89B7FE-D23E-11D7-A394-00039310151E@axxent.ca> Over the years I've used only a few different Linux distributions. Can anyone summarize differences in substance or style among most of what exists? ...perhaps a website that compares or describes the most likely audience for the various types...especially in terms of how technically adept the user/admin needs to be? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 12:27:12 2003 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 08:27:12 -0400 Subject: Multiple installations Message-ID: <75DF0BBC-D240-11D7-A394-00039310151E@axxent.ca> When it comes to PC hardware, I really don't, therefore I have what's probably a ridiculous question. I set up a machine with a single hard drive partitioned to dual-boot between NT Workstation and SuSE Linux. I use my current Linux installation for all kinds of volatile stuff: trying out various SW packages, my own development projects.... I would like to have a second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. I've done this on Macs where it's as simple as adding another drive, installing a second copy of the system, and choosing which volume/partition to boot from. With PCs, however, I've heard horror stories from others about failing to boot because of number, location, or size of a given partition...or master vs. slave drives. Are there warnings/guidelines for what I want to do? (It sounds like it should be a "just do it", but others' experiences make me nervous.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 14:14:14 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:14:14 -0400 Subject: Multiple installations In-Reply-To: <75DF0BBC-D240-11D7-A394-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <75DF0BBC-D240-11D7-A394-00039310151E@axxent.ca> Message-ID: <1061302454.2475.4138.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> On Tue, 2003-08-19 at 08:27, Phillip Mills wrote: [snip] > I would like to have a > second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay > relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to > clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. [snip] > Are there > warnings/guidelines for what I want to do? (It sounds like it should > be a "just do it", but others' experiences make me nervous.) On a box from the last few years there should be no issue. I suggest installing Microsoft OS' first : oldest to newest. Cheers, Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 14:25:52 2003 From: steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Ellis, Steve) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:25:52 -0400 Subject: Multiple installations Message-ID: Maybe you should consider products like VMWare. You would then have the ability to run many O/S systems without worrying too much about killing the host system. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Phillip Mills [mailto:pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 8:27 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Multiple installations When it comes to PC hardware, I really don't, therefore I have what's probably a ridiculous question. I set up a machine with a single hard drive partitioned to dual-boot between NT Workstation and SuSE Linux. I use my current Linux installation for all kinds of volatile stuff: trying out various SW packages, my own development projects.... I would like to have a second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. I've done this on Macs where it's as simple as adding another drive, installing a second copy of the system, and choosing which volume/partition to boot from. With PCs, however, I've heard horror stories from others about failing to boot because of number, location, or size of a given partition...or master vs. slave drives. Are there warnings/guidelines for what I want to do? (It sounds like it should be a "just do it", but others' experiences make me nervous.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 14:17:58 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:17:58 -0400 Subject: Distributions' differences In-Reply-To: <4B89B7FE-D23E-11D7-A394-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4B89B7FE-D23E-11D7-A394-00039310151E@axxent.ca> Message-ID: <1061302678.2474.4151.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> http://www.distrowatch.com/ is likely your best bet, but not really what you asked for. Cheers, Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 14:56:56 2003 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:56:56 -0400 Subject: Multiple installations In-Reply-To: <1061302454.2475.4138.camel-kJIXitw1kzNlRO5chPstXzJtLkR7yuzc@public.gmane.org> References: <1061302454.2475.4138.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: <6079235C-D255-11D7-B8F6-00039310151E@axxent.ca> On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 10:14 AM, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > On Tue, 2003-08-19 at 08:27, Phillip Mills wrote: > > [snip] >> I would like to have a >> second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay >> relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to >> clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. > > On a box from the last few years there should be no issue. > > I suggest installing Microsoft OS' first : oldest to newest. That sounds as if you're suggesting a reinstallation of what's already there? I was hoping that, by adding a second drive and putting my production system on that, I could leave the NT/Linux development stuff as is. It's not like I'd be likely to put a second version of Windows on a nice clean drive or anything. :-) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 14:58:03 2003 From: bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (misterbonnie) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:58:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: REQUESTING INTERRUPT ON 4 Message-ID: IRQ4 WEDNESDAY AUGUST 20 ******new location --------> FUNHAUS 526 QUEEN STREET WEST (FORMER ZEN LOUNGE) featuring performances by: cyborg data jockey GHETTOCYB.ORG CEREBRAL ITCH spinning electro-space-glitch, and a live PA by SUBRYTHM - plus an 802.11b wireless net, live videomixing by DR. RX, MISTERBONNIE on teh commandline, an ascii porn room, art by BADPACKET and others... pls c http://www.asciipr0n.com/irq/ a floppyswap (imgs, html, txt, mods or anything that fits on a floppy) (archive of past floppyswaps can be found @ http://www.asciipr0n.com/archive/0015/ ) bcnu there ^_^ irq-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org 4 more info -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 14:56:58 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:56:58 -0400 Subject: Multiple installations In-Reply-To: <6079235C-D255-11D7-B8F6-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <6079235C-D255-11D7-B8F6-00039310151E@axxent.ca> Message-ID: <1061305017.2474.4269.camel@fooll.foolswisdom.com> On Tue, 2003-08-19 at 10:56, Phillip Mills wrote: > On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 10:14 AM, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > > > On Tue, 2003-08-19 at 08:27, Phillip Mills wrote: > > > > [snip] > >> I would like to have a > >> second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay > >> relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to > >> clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. > > > > On a box from the last few years there should be no issue. > > > > I suggest installing Microsoft OS' first : oldest to newest. > > That sounds as if you're suggesting a reinstallation of what's already > there? I was hoping that, by adding a second drive and putting my > production system on that, I could leave the NT/Linux development stuff > as is. It's not like I'd be likely to put a second version of Windows > on a nice clean drive or anything. :-) Sorry for the confusion. My mention of MS OS is a distracting. You are correct, no re-installation should be necessary. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 15:10:44 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:10:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Multiple installations In-Reply-To: <75DF0BBC-D240-11D7-A394-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <75DF0BBC-D240-11D7-A394-00039310151E@axxent.ca> Message-ID: <16778.216.138.194.32.1061305844.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > When it comes to PC hardware, I really don't, therefore I have what's > probably a ridiculous question. > > I set up a machine with a single hard drive partitioned to dual-boot > between NT Workstation and SuSE Linux. I use my current Linux > installation for all kinds of volatile stuff: trying out various SW > packages, my own development projects.... I would like to have a > second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay > relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to > clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. > > I've done this on Macs where it's as simple as adding another drive, > installing a second copy of the system, and choosing which > volume/partition to boot from. With PCs, however, I've heard horror > stories from others about failing to boot because of number, location, > or size of a given partition...or master vs. slave drives. Are there > warnings/guidelines for what I want to do? (It sounds like it should > be a "just do it", but others' experiences make me nervous.) Just do it. If there are problems they are workable. I would trust linux/xBSD for this long before I would trust M$. You can share filesystems between the installations. Windoh$ wants to be on the first filesystem of the primary drive, linux really has no limitations in comparison. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 15:22:43 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:22:43 -0400 Subject: Distributions' differences In-Reply-To: <4B89B7FE-D23E-11D7-A394-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4B89B7FE-D23E-11D7-A394-00039310151E@axxent.ca> Message-ID: <20030819152243.GE24891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 19, 2003 at 08:11:42AM -0400, Phillip Mills wrote: > Over the years I've used only a few different Linux distributions. Can > anyone summarize differences in substance or style among most of what > exists? ...perhaps a website that compares or describes the most > likely audience for the various types...especially in terms of how > technically adept the user/admin needs to be? Well main differences that matter are: Installer (some are friendly, some have many features, some let you choose everything, others give you what makes sense to many new users). Package management (or lack thereof). Some have full dependancy checking, auto download from mirror sites, simple upgrades. Some have some of that but requrie you to download the packages yourself and then install them. Some have no dependancy handling and just put the files on the drive for you. Some use source code only. Configuration and management: Some have GUIs to "help" you with everything, some have command line tools, some expect you to edit the config files yourself. Some allow multiple of those. Default desktop: Some come with a nicely configured ready to use desktop environment, some have multiple choices of desktops, some ave none. Some force you to have one, some let you choose, and some just don't give you anything. Release cycle: Some distributions release every X months, sometimes even if they aren't fully tested. Some only release when they are done (even if it takes years between releases). Some have multiple levels of release that you can choose from, from very stable to leading edge but not fully tested. As for what is best, that depends on the user's experience level, how low level into the nit picky stuff they like to get, and how much control they expect to have over things. Some are very efficient time wise for admins who need to admin many machines, possibly remotely, and can be managed quickly and simply using ssh only. Others are more like windows and need to you run X applications to change settings (unless you know what file to edit and what the exact syntax is.) Which distribution fits what is also arguable (and people do argue about it.) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 15:22:55 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:22:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Distributions' differences In-Reply-To: <4B89B7FE-D23E-11D7-A394-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4B89B7FE-D23E-11D7-A394-00039310151E@axxent.ca> Message-ID: <16806.216.138.194.32.1061306575.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > Over the years I've used only a few different Linux distributions. Can > anyone summarize differences in substance or style among most of what > exists? ...perhaps a website that compares or describes the most > likely audience for the various types...especially in terms of how > technically adept the user/admin needs to be? .. pretty difficult to do with any degree of accuracy, as what you're asking is so subjective. Even putting a poll together probably won't give you the data you're looking for, as the results would depend on the respondants and their degree of technical proficiency, plus whatever prejudices they carry. Coca-Cola/Pepsi, Labatts/Molsons... which is better? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 16:02:08 2003 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:02:08 -0400 Subject: Distributions' differences In-Reply-To: <16806.216.138.194.32.1061306575.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <16806.216.138.194.32.1061306575.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: <7C7706AC-D25E-11D7-B571-00039310151E@axxent.ca> On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 11:22 AM, Keith Mastin wrote: > Coca-Cola/Pepsi, Labatts/Molsons... which is > better? Oh, I've been around computers long enough to know not to ask THAT! (Apple ][, TRS-80; Atari, Amiga....) But my assumption/experience is that various distributions target various audiences. (I remember the Corel one having Wizard-everything; conversely I've installed -- some years ago -- by searching for a kernel that had the basic drivers I needed, creating a boot-floppy on Windows....) Actually, I think the "distrowatch" site has what I need where it describes some history and motivation...rather than popularity. Thanks to all for the help. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 16:07:38 2003 From: billt-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg at public.gmane.org (billt-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:07:38 -0400 Subject: TLUG vs Sympatico In-Reply-To: <20030812215554.GH4191-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>; from lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org on Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 05:55:54PM -0400 References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A8FC2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <61517.64.228.103.179.1060699459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <20030812215554.GH4191@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030819120738.A29180@diamond.ss.org> On the subject of disconnect/reconnect brought up. The procedure is that when you disconnect the sympatico line a disconnect order is sent for a disconnect on a specific day. If a reconnect order is recieved prior to that day the computer program will detect this and overide the disconnect work order. The new work order will be a "reprogram" instead of "pull the card". This was the 3 million dollar upgrade I was responsible for back in 1999. On "why use pppoe". PPPoe is used because it allows for changing peoples ip addresses seemlessly without requiring a disconnect/reconnect sequence. PPPoe was compitable with the method used for billing of IP services that ALL odf the telcos in North America agreed upon nearly a decade ago, so instead of changing the billing system, they added the extra layer. Hope this has been enlightening. Bill On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 05:55:54PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2003 at 10:44:19AM -0400, Keith Mastin wrote: > > Unfortunately, this doesn't work unless you have 2 unique PICs. I run into > > this all the time. Bell pulls the DSLAM on directions from Sympatico and > > then plugs another one in on direction from the new provider. You might be > > able to get it down to 4 days if you have an insider at Bell, but I > > wouldn't count on it. > > > > Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet. > > Actually you can use multiple dsl providers at the same time and select > based on the pppoe parameters you set. Your line is either DSL enabled > or it isn't, there is no choice of which equipment it plugs into. That > is the whole reason they use pppoe in the first place. It is to select > the other end of your tunnel. > > It is possible that when you disconnect sympatico they will order > disconnect even though you now have service with another provider. > Perhaps the new provider will have some method of ensuring they don't do > so. Ask them, since I imagine it is a common question that they > probably have the answer to. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 17:05:36 2003 From: fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org (Robert Findlay) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:05:36 -0400 Subject: when dealing with an extortionist Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20030819130536.00a2f660@inbox.attcanada.ca> It seems that the Open Source community has indicated its willingness to make a deal with the SCO extortionists. http://linuxtoday.com/developer/2003081901726OSCYLL In my opinion this is a very dangerous tactic but I recognize that the court system may be many things but fair isn't one of them. In my opinion if we are going to cut a deal with SCO as an Open Source community it should contain some elements which ensure that they will never be a problem again: a) SCO must cease to be a Linux distributor permanently b) SCO must agree to never bundle any Open Source code with its core SCO product going forward c) SCO must agree to never use any Open Source tools in its development chain In return the Linux community should remove the contentious pieces of source code from the 2.6 source tree ( presumably until the matter of ownership is clarified by a court ). Meanwhile as an Open Source community we should crank it up a notch and continue to innovate like crazy and lose the closed source companies in our dust. We should pool the millions of dollars that would have been spent on legal costs and set up a foundation to helping independent Open Source projects help their developers eat. The reality of this whole debate is that those elements of the Linux kernel that are at the centre of the dispute are the big enterprise features on Intel boxes. Those are the elements on which the big two (IBM and HP) are sucking all the available profits at the moment. The bulk of the rest of the Open Source community is working on aspects (and trying to eek out a living ) of the Open Source pool that is ultimately going to consume all the competition in areas such as: i) programming tools ii) embedded development iii) web services iv) desktop -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 17:28:33 2003 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:28:33 -0400 Subject: Question re: Qmail and disk quotas Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030819132728.01ef7c40@pop> Greetings, all. I have imposed disk quotas on some users on a machine I administer. The machine runs Qmail and the mail for certain domains is placed under the home directory of the user that owns the domain. If the user goes over quota and exceeds the grace period, they will no longer be able to create new files until they get back under the soft quota limit. If an account goes over quota for longer than the grace period how will this affect their incoming mail? Will qmail still deliver their mail in to their account or will it be bounced? I don't have a user anywhere near their quota limits yet. I'm just checking on expected behaviour. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 17:30:08 2003 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:30:08 -0400 Subject: GHOSTing Linux drives seems to have problems with the boot sector Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20030819132902.00ac6ec0@pop> At 11:58 AM 07/30/2003 -0400, teddymills wrote: >GHOSTing Linux drive seems to have problems with the boot sector. >All the Linux and data gets ghosted ok, but the drives do not boot up >properly. I am not sure what you mean by GHOSTing Linux. From the rest of the messages related to this topic, it seems like you are trying to find a way to have some redundancy in the data on your hard drive(s). Since you already have one or more spare drives you want to use for the GHOSTing operation, wouldn't it be easier and/or simpler to use the spare drives to set up a RAID 1 (disk mirror) configuration? Then you won't have to worry about boot sector problems, etc. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 18:25:45 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:25:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: when dealing with an extortionist In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20030819130536.00a2f660-DAYOI8RREjRRKGs565JiGbDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.1.32.20030819130536.00a2f660@inbox.attcanada.ca> Message-ID: <63085.64.228.103.185.1061317545.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > It seems that the Open Source community has indicated its willingness to > make a deal with the SCO extortionists. > > http://linuxtoday.com/developer/2003081901726OSCYLL At first glance, it doesn't look to me like this is a deal at all. It looks more like the OSC wanting to keep their own back yard and name clean. > In my opinion this is a very dangerous tactic but I recognize that the > court system may be many things but fair isn't one of them. Agreed, they just want to look fair while screwing the little guy. > In my opinion if we are going to cut a deal with SCO as an Open Source > community it should contain some elements which ensure that they will > never be a problem again: Mmmm. Better to keep that within OSS control rather than depending on SCO to do anything. Any deal will be written by shysters at a huge expense. OTOH, if SCO steps out of line, there shouldn't be any hesitation to call them on it. > In return the Linux community should remove the contentious pieces of > source code from the 2.6 source tree ( presumably until the matter of > ownership is clarified by a court ). This seems to be the spirit of things, but in the interest of keeping the code pristine rather than to appease SCO. We always have to remember that if someone doesn't honor a proprietary license that they might not honor the copyleft either. I think that attitude is pretty much prevalent within the community. We are not a bunch of Warez advocates, although there are always some who would rather not pay anythng. I think that there's a lot of OSS advocates who will pay for opensource apps and programs if they work. -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 21:38:32 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:38:32 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: test (ignore) Message-ID: Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 22:43:05 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:43:05 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: lost mail Message-ID: Hi, I have posted a message to this list twice, in the last 2 hours. I have not seen it. It is relative to the SCO vs. Linux debate. Who or what do I need to do or contact to clarify where my email got deleted ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 18 01:47:32 2003 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:47:32 -0400 Subject: 6.2 vs. 7.3 Message-ID: <3F403034.6D89CAD7@onlink.net> I have an acer p166 (64 MB RAM, awe32 sound card, trio s3 virge video card) which my daughter has been using for WordPerfect 8, MSN (gaim), music CDs and Internet. It had RH 7.3 and ran a little slow. I upgraded it to 8.0 to see just how slow it would run - and, ya, it was *too* slow. I think the hardware is better suited to RH 6.2. That went on easily and everything seems a little faster. However, I can see I'll have to a lot of mucking around - no gaim, so I'll have to find something else that will run MSN, it liked my sound card but then announced that I'll have to compile sound support into the kernel, printing already gave me a little trouble. Problem is is that this is not a test/learning machine - this is my daughter's machine. I don't want to tell her she has to be off it for days and days while I learn about makefile, compiling the kernel (for the first time), etc. So, my question is: Is Rh 6.2 going to so much faster on this machine that's it's going to be worth my daughter being without a computer for a month while I try to get it to do what 7.3 will do right out of the box? Please, spare the other hundreds of people on the list, the "Gee, Chris, I know the answer to your problem - it's called Windows - embrace the Beaast." comments - or at least send it offline - thanks. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 19 22:59:28 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:59:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 6.2 vs. 7.3 In-Reply-To: <3F403034.6D89CAD7-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <3F403034.6D89CAD7@onlink.net> Message-ID: <17319.216.138.194.32.1061333968.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > about makefile, compiling the kernel (for the first time), etc. So, my > question is: Is Rh 6.2 going to so much faster on this machine that's > it's going to be worth my daughter being without a computer for a month > while I try to get it to do what 7.3 will do right out of the box? Really, the bottleneck is probably all the X thingies she needs. These are needs, right? 6.2 uses a bit less system resources than 7.3, but it has it's faults too... it's no longer supported by redhat. It's also not much of a multimedia -ready desktop compared to 7.3. What I would suggest is that she might try knoppix for a while and see if she (and you) can handle debian. If so, then you'll be off and running with a good little woody install. 8,000+ programs to chose from, and software management is a breeze with apt-get. I was a bit intimidated myself at first moving from redhat, but once I got the idea of apt-get it got a little easier. Most of the configs are in the software, so they're pretty generic across the board. Worth checking out anyways... -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 00:05:48 2003 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:05:48 +0300 Subject: when dealing with an extortionist Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwtlai-Xhj3G7Rj6JI at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 00:25:11 2003 From: jwtlai-Xhj3G7Rj6JI at public.gmane.org (Jim W Lai) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:25:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: when dealing with an extortionist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, E K wrote: > Every thing about SCO smells like dead fish. Here is another related > article... This piece by Bruce Perens is pretty damning. http://perens.com/Articles/SCOCopiedCode.html One of the alleged pieces of copied code turns out to be available to the open source community via other distinct licenses. Perhaps SCO's team didn't do their homework, hence their unwillingness to expose the alleged violations. Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 01:18:04 2003 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 04:18:04 +0300 Subject: when dealing with an extortionist Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 02:49:11 2003 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:49:11 -0400 Subject: 6.2 vs. 7.3 In-Reply-To: <3F403034.6D89CAD7-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <3F403034.6D89CAD7@onlink.net> Message-ID: <20030819224911.2ed0b559.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:47:32 -0400 Chris Aitken wrote: > I have an acer p166 (64 MB RAM, awe32 sound card, trio s3 virge video > card) which my daughter has been using for WordPerfect 8, MSN (gaim), > music CDs and Internet. It had RH 7.3 and ran a little slow. I upgraded > it to 8.0 to see just how slow it would run - and, ya, it was *too* > slow. I think the hardware is better suited to RH 6.2. That went on > easily and everything seems a little faster. However, I can see I'll > have to a lot of mucking around - no gaim, so I'll have to find > something else that will run MSN, it liked my sound card but then > announced that I'll have to compile sound support into the kernel, > printing already gave me a little trouble. Problem is is that this is > not a test/learning machine - this is my daughter's machine. I don't > want to tell her she has to be off it for days and days while I learn > about makefile, compiling the kernel (for the first time), etc. So, my > question is: Is Rh 6.2 going to so much faster on this machine that's > it's going to be worth my daughter being without a computer for a month > while I try to get it to do what 7.3 will do right out of the box? > > Please, spare the other hundreds of people on the list, the "Gee, Chris, > I know the answer to your problem - it's called Windows - embrace the > Beaast." comments - or at least send it offline - thanks. > > Chris Chris, I have just upgraded my P233 laptop to Red Hat 8. I have 64MB of RAM, and it too is running slowly. Definitely, I am into swap, so my second strategy for speeding things up is more RAM. My first strategy for speeding things up is to run FVWM2 instead of Gnome or KDE. There are a couple of other small window managers out there, but I have a long history with FVWM. There are a couple of other FVWM freaks in this user group, so you can get help. There was some talk about running an FVWM demo at one of the user meetings. Is there any more interest in this? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 06:32:09 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:32:09 -0400 Subject: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <200308131002.09242.adam-+Gnyv3l5ckaNFgfkp0FINA@public.gmane.org> References: <200308131002.09242.adam@tworkowski.com> Message-ID: <00da01c366e4$c8cd72f0$459d9c18@main> Does anyone know of a good course to learn PHP from absolutely nothing? Before anyone tells me to RTFM, I would like to learn from someone else and ask questions :) Thanks, Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From visdav-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 11:57:06 2003 From: visdav-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Visda Vokhshoori) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 04:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <00da01c366e4$c8cd72f0$459d9c18-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <00da01c366e4$c8cd72f0$459d9c18@main> Message-ID: <20030820115706.67993.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> Pardon my ignorance, but what does RTFM stand for? TIA, Visda --- Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Does anyone know of a good course to learn PHP from > absolutely nothing? > Before anyone tells me to RTFM, I would like to > learn from someone else > and ask questions :) > > Thanks, > > Sid > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 12:05:50 2003 From: forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Martin C) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <20030820115706.67993.qmail-/17YaKq4EN+A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20030820115706.67993.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20030820120550.80614.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> The best thing to deal with abbreviations is google. You enter ?? stands?? and that??s it. in this case you can read: RTFM stands for Read the f*****g Manual Bye! --- Visda Vokhshoori wrote: > Pardon my ignorance, but what does RTFM stand for? > > TIA, > Visda > > --- Sidney Shapiro wrote: > > Does anyone know of a good course to learn PHP > from > > absolutely nothing? > > Before anyone tells me to RTFM, I would like to > > learn from someone else > > and ask questions :) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 12:50:15 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:50:15 -0400 Subject: 6.2 vs. 7.3 In-Reply-To: <3F403034.6D89CAD7-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <3F403034.6D89CAD7@onlink.net> Message-ID: <20030820125015.GA846@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 09:47:32PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > I have an acer p166 (64 MB RAM, awe32 sound card, trio s3 virge video > card) which my daughter has been using for WordPerfect 8, MSN (gaim), > music CDs and Internet. It had RH 7.3 and ran a little slow. I upgraded > it to 8.0 to see just how slow it would run - and, ya, it was *too* > slow. I think the hardware is better suited to RH 6.2. That went on > easily and everything seems a little faster. However, I can see I'll > have to a lot of mucking around - no gaim, so I'll have to find > something else that will run MSN, it liked my sound card but then > announced that I'll have to compile sound support into the kernel, > printing already gave me a little trouble. Problem is is that this is > not a test/learning machine - this is my daughter's machine. I don't > want to tell her she has to be off it for days and days while I learn > about makefile, compiling the kernel (for the first time), etc. So, my > question is: Is Rh 6.2 going to so much faster on this machine that's > it's going to be worth my daughter being without a computer for a month > while I try to get it to do what 7.3 will do right out of the box? > > Please, spare the other hundreds of people on the list, the "Gee, Chris, > I know the answer to your problem - it's called Windows - embrace the > Beaast." comments - or at least send it offline - thanks. The simple solution is, you don't want to run wordperfect or anything like it, and not really much of X either on just 64MB ram. If you could get a hold of more ram to get 128MB total it would run much much better. Used ram shouldn't be too hard to find unless it uses weird ram. Should be under $50 to upgrade it I imagine. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 13:28:48 2003 From: hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Hugh Reilly) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:28:48 -0400 Subject: Learning PHP Message-ID: >The best thing to deal with abbreviations is google. >You enter ?? stands?? and that??s it. >in this case you can read: >RTFM stands for Read the f*****g Manual That's news to me. I thought it meant Real Time Feasibility Management... -Hugh > >Bye! > >--- Visda Vokhshoori wrote: > > Pardon my ignorance, but what does RTFM stand for? > > > > TIA, > > Visda > > > > --- Sidney Shapiro wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a good course to learn PHP > > from > > > absolutely nothing? > > > Before anyone tells me to RTFM, I would like to > > > learn from someone else > > > and ask questions :) > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 13:59:12 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:59:12 -0500 Subject: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <00da01c366e4$c8cd72f0$459d9c18-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <00da01c366e4$c8cd72f0$459d9c18@main> Message-ID: <20030820135912.5CA4375861@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:32:09 -0400, "Sidney Shapiro" said: > Does anyone know of a good course to learn PHP from absolutely nothing? > Before anyone tells me to RTFM, I would like to learn from someone else > and ask questions :) > > Thanks, > > Sid There's a group of people meeting to learn PHP Thursday nights at 6pm down at St. Christopher House at Ossington & Dundas. I'm sure you'd be welcome to drop in and ask questions there. St. Chris has a computer program at that locaation that is working towards developing a Linux/Open Source learning centre - they currently have five or six computers that will be available for a linux conversion in a couple of weeks so anyone interested in participating might want to pay them a visit and talk to the coordinator Randall. Here's their web page: http://www.bangthedrum.net I've got current versions of Libranet and Xandros that I could contribute to this. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 14:40:48 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:40:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <00da01c366e4$c8cd72f0$459d9c18-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <200308131002.09242.adam@tworkowski.com> <00da01c366e4$c8cd72f0$459d9c18@main> Message-ID: <18426.216.138.194.32.1061390448.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > Does anyone know of a good course to learn PHP from absolutely nothing? > Before anyone tells me to RTFM, I would like to learn from someone else > and ask questions :) I grabbed a book by Larry Ullman for this. PHP and MySQL for dynamic websites. It takes you through the basics, enough that you can actually start deciphering what's going on in the code and to start writing some of your own and having a semblance of an idea of what's going on. St Christophers House looks interesting too... it might be worth dropping by to see if there's room for another body. -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 15:54:51 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:54:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Question re: Qmail and disk quotas In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20030819132728.01ef7c40-Y+x2PRVmZgc@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030819132728.01ef7c40@pop> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 2003, Kevin Cozens wrote: > If the user goes over quota and exceeds the grace period, they will no > longer be able to create new files until they get back under the soft quota > limit. If an account goes over quota for longer than the grace period how > will this affect their incoming mail? Will qmail still deliver their mail > in to their account or will it be bounced? Can't speak specifically for qmail, but I have seen this situation with another MTA. The mail bounced with a 5xx series error (this is a permanent failure), basically "User over quota". You may like to look at RFCs 2821 & 2822. This is distinct from a situation in which the filesystem is full which would normally fail with a 4xx error (transient failure). In this case remote MTAs will continue to attempt delivery as they would in any other case when delivery was prevented. > I don't have a user anywhere near their quota limits yet. I'm just checking > on expected behaviour. I'd suggest creating a test user, setting a low quota, forcing it over the soft limit and mailing the account to actually cause the condition to occur. A test user is valuable for this sort of thing. When not in use for testing the account should be locked. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikefisher-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 16:12:41 2003 From: mikefisher-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Mike Fisher) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:12:41 -0400 Subject: Am I still on the TLUG list? Message-ID: <3F439DF9.585A489D@sympatico.ca> Hi folks, If you see this pop up on the TLUG list please send me a short reply saying you can see it, YES will do nicely. I stopped receiving TLUG list email some time ago and am trying to find out the reason. My anti-spam feature at Sympatico is turned off so it shouldn't be that whatever Sympatico are doing. Cheers, Mike Fisher -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rfk-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 16:33:38 2003 From: rfk-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:33:38 -0400 Subject: Inputing Chinese In-Reply-To: <18426.216.138.194.32.1061390448.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <18426.216.138.194.32.1061390448.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: <000001c36738$ceed17e0$1902a8c0@coilnetworks.com> Does anyone have any experience with inputting Chinese characters on Linux? My wife Catherine is from Taiwan and has been using W2K with Chinese and was quite happy with it. Her computer had a weird problem and I had to reinstall the OS so I thought I would put on RH 8.0. Her demands were that it had a web browser - easy, a program for watching TV - Xawtv (took some work but I got it), and finally that she be able to input in Traditional Chinese for chat. The documentation for this in English is quite sparse, I understand that Xcin can do the job but I can't figure out how to use it. If I don't get this soon, I'll have to put Windows back on her computer. Thanks for any assistance. Best, Robert Margueretta St. Toronto -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Alain-ZUEtzF2Y1zYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 17:13:26 2003 From: Alain-ZUEtzF2Y1zYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alain Rochon) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:13:26 -0400 Subject: Am I still on the TLUG list? Message-ID: Yes I received this. Alain >>> mikefisher-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org 20/08/2003 12:12:41 pm >>> Hi folks, If you see this pop up on the TLUG list please send me a short reply saying you can see it, YES will do nicely. I stopped receiving TLUG list email some time ago and am trying to find out the reason. My anti-spam feature at Sympatico is turned off so it shouldn't be that whatever Sympatico are doing. Cheers, Mike Fisher -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregory.pleau-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 17:42:36 2003 From: gregory.pleau-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gregory Pleau) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:42:36 -0400 Subject: Am I still on the TLUG list? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000401c36742$71b4c280$d02810ac@o10136> >>>> mikefisher-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org 20/08/2003 12:12:41 pm >>> >Hi folks, >??????? If you see this pop up on the TLUG list please send me a short >reply saying you can see it, YES will do nicely. >I stopped receiving TLUG list email some time ago and am trying to find >out the reason. My anti-spam feature at Sympatico is turned off so it >shouldn't be that whatever Sympatico are doing. Yes it is Symcraptico. I have not received a single piece of TLUG on any of my six Symcraptico addresses. And apparently I'm not alone. I?ve actually resorted to HOTMAIL of all things to get my mail. Maybe you should get one of those linux.ca email accounts and forward it to your Symcraptico address... ? That might get around the filter (haven't tried it myself). I?m sure it?s another ?improvement? to protect me from myself, or they got tired of supporting Linux users on their help desk. - Greg Just setting up auk-nord-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org now.... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 17:48:33 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Am I still on the TLUG list? In-Reply-To: <3F439DF9.585A489D-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <3F439DF9.585A489D@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Mike Fisher wrote: > Hi folks, > If you see this pop up on the TLUG list please send me a short > reply saying you can see it, YES will do nicely. > I stopped receiving TLUG list email some time ago and am trying to find > out the reason. My anti-spam feature at Sympatico is turned off so it > shouldn't be that whatever Sympatico are doing. > Cheers, > Mike Fisher Hi Mike. This is a known problem. Those with email addresses on Sympatico & Rogers have been advising of problems for some weeks. I believe they are looking into it. I suspect it may be related to path MTU discovery but without a proper investigation it is hard to say. To the powers that be: I've been diagnosing network problems for more than a decade so if I can provide any help tracking down the problem please feel free to ask. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 17:51:00 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:51:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Am I still on the TLUG list? In-Reply-To: <000401c36742$71b4c280$d02810ac-9WhAb0OqVy0@public.gmane.org> References: <000401c36742$71b4c280$d02810ac@o10136> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Gregory Pleau wrote: > I?ve actually resorted to HOTMAIL of all things to get my mail. > Maybe you should get one of those linux.ca email accounts and forward it to > your Symcraptico address... ? That might get around the filter (haven't > tried it myself). Talking to the person who manages the box the mailing list runs on (sorry, forgotten your name :) it really doesn't sound like a filter, more like a networking problem. The symptoms as related to me so far agree with previous incarnations of pmtu problems I've seen. Rob > > I?m sure it?s another ?improvement? to protect me from myself, or they got > tired of supporting Linux users on their help desk. > > > - Greg > Just setting up auk-nord-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org now.... > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidneyshapiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 18:54:22 2003 From: sidneyshapiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:54:22 -0400 Subject: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <20030820135912.5CA4375861-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20030820135912.5CA4375861@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <000801c3674c$784f6370$459d9c18@main> > > There's a group of people meeting to learn PHP Thursday nights at 6pm > down at St. Christopher House at Ossington & Dundas. I'm sure you'd be > welcome to drop in and ask questions there. > > St. Chris has a computer program at that locaation that is working > towards developing a Linux/Open Source learning centre - they currently > have five or six computers that will be available for a linux conversion > in a couple of weeks so anyone interested in participating might want to > pay them a visit and talk to the coordinator Randall. > > Here's their web page: > http://www.bangthedrum.net > > I've got current versions of Libranet and Xandros that I could contribute > to this. Is there a number I could call them at? Thanks, Sidney -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 19:11:47 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:11:47 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: ping storm Message-ID: I get lots of ping storms on my firewall log. Is this new virus pinging too or is it something else. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 20:07:35 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:07:35 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: Wonderful resource about IP packets and more Message-ID: I just found this, it's a TCP/IP pocket guide in 2 page poster format: http://pw1.netcom.com/~jsnader/pg.pdf also see the page proper: http://pw1.netcom.com/~jsnader/ very nice, and I have no connection with it, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 14:39:46 2003 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:39:46 -0400 Subject: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <20030820115706.67993.qmail-/17YaKq4EN+A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <00da01c366e4$c8cd72f0$459d9c18@main> <20030820115706.67993.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030820103823.01ec9580@mail.interlog.com> At 04:57 AM 08/20/2003 -0700, Visda wrote: >Pardon my ignorance, but what does RTFM stand for? Someone already commented on the more typical version of RTFM. For more polite circles the letters stand for "Read The Fine Manual". :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 14:51:09 2003 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:51:09 -0400 Subject: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <00da01c366e4$c8cd72f0$459d9c18-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <200308131002.09242.adam@tworkowski.com> <00da01c366e4$c8cd72f0$459d9c18@main> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030820104012.01ecc730@mail.interlog.com> At 02:32 AM 08/20/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Does anyone know of a good course to learn PHP from absolutely nothing? >Before anyone tells me to RTFM, I would like to learn from someone else >and ask questions :) A course would be one way to learn PHP. Do you need one? It would depend on your background. If you have used Perl and/or C in the past then you may be able to pick up one of those "Teach Yourself PHP in X Days" type books. I have been programming a long time (over 20 years) and have used a variety of languages. A decent reference text is all I need to pick up the specific syntax of a new language and to learn what are the available built-in library routines to do various things. I went through the first 8 hours of an "...in 24 hours" book on PHP in about 1 hour and another 2 hours for the next several "hours" in the book. Picking up a book can be much cheaper than most formal courses and you can go at your own pace. It will depend on how much programming background you have, if you have used languages with similar syntax, and if you can pick things up from books easily (some people can't). YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary before someone asks. :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 01:17:25 2003 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 20 Aug 2003 21:17:25 -0400 Subject: Multiple installations In-Reply-To: <16778.216.138.194.32.1061305844.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <75DF0BBC-D240-11D7-A394-00039310151E@axxent.ca> <16778.216.138.194.32.1061305844.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: "Keith Mastin" writes: > > When it comes to PC hardware, I really don't, therefore I have what's > > probably a ridiculous question. > > > > I set up a machine with a single hard drive partitioned to dual-boot > > between NT Workstation and SuSE Linux. I use my current Linux > > installation for all kinds of volatile stuff: trying out various SW > > packages, my own development projects.... I would like to have a > > second, bootable Linux environment on that computer that would stay > > relatively clean as a "production" server where I could demo stuff to > > clients without wondering what my latest downloads mangled. > > > > I've done this on Macs where it's as simple as adding another drive, > > installing a second copy of the system, and choosing which > > volume/partition to boot from. With PCs, however, I've heard horror > > stories from others about failing to boot because of number, location, > > or size of a given partition...or master vs. slave drives. Are there > > warnings/guidelines for what I want to do? (It sounds like it should > > be a "just do it", but others' experiences make me nervous.) > > Just do it. If there are problems they are workable. I would trust > linux/xBSD for this long before I would trust M$. You can share > filesystems between the installations. Windoh$ wants to be on the first > filesystem of the primary drive, linux really has no limitations in > comparison. Linux doesn't (care much about where it is) but some of the BSDs do. FreeBSD, for example, requires a primary partition which it slices in its own way (similar to logical partitions within an extended partition). Linux has support for FreeBSD slices but you have to be careful about layout as it (Linux) treats the slices as extended partitions. Consequently, installing FreeBSD in the wrong location on your disk can result in renumbering your Linux partitions. A good organization for triple booting Windows, Linux, and FreeBSD on one disk is: /dev/hda1 Windows /dev/hda2 extended /dev/hda3 FreeBSD (containing FreeBSD slices) /dev/hda4 unused /dev/hda5 Linux /dev/hda6 Linux ... /dev/hdaN Linux where hda5 through hdaN are your separate Linux partitions (e.g. /, swap, /var, /usr, and so on). In Linux, your M FreeBSD slices will be accessible as /dev/hdaN+1 through /dev/hdaN+M. Sometimes (e.g with older BIOSES that can't boot from a cylinder larger than 1024), it's advantageous to have a separate (small) /boot partition at the beginning of your disk, like this: /dev/hda1 /boot /dev/hda2 Windows /dev/hda3 extended /dev/hda4 FreeBSD (containing FreeBSD slices) /dev/hda5 Linux /dev/hda6 Linux ... /dev/hdaN Linux Note the placement of the extended partition (containg logical partitions used by Linux) before the FreeBSD partition. If the order was reversed, you'd have this arrangement: /dev/hda1 /boot /dev/hda2 Windows /dev/hda3 FreeBSD (containing FreeBSD slices, e.g. hda5, hda6, ... hdaM) /dev/hda4 extended /dev/hdaM+1 Linux /dev/hdaM+2 Linux ... /dev/hdaM+N Linux This can work but if you remove FreeBSD or simply boot Linux with a kernel w/o support for FreeBSD slices (such as a rescue kernel), your Linux partitions will be renumbered (starting from hda5 again). Needless to say, this can cause a lot of problems. -- tim writer starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 01:41:01 2003 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 20 Aug 2003 21:41:01 -0400 Subject: 6.2 vs. 7.3 In-Reply-To: <20030819224911.2ed0b559.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3F403034.6D89CAD7@onlink.net> <20030819224911.2ed0b559.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: Howard Gibson writes: > On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:47:32 -0400 > Chris Aitken wrote: > > > I have an acer p166 (64 MB RAM, awe32 sound card, trio s3 virge video > > card) which my daughter has been using for WordPerfect 8, MSN (gaim), > > music CDs and Internet. It had RH 7.3 and ran a little slow. I upgraded > > it to 8.0 to see just how slow it would run - and, ya, it was *too* > > slow. I think the hardware is better suited to RH 6.2. That went on > > easily and everything seems a little faster. However, I can see I'll > > have to a lot of mucking around - no gaim, so I'll have to find > > something else that will run MSN, it liked my sound card but then > > announced that I'll have to compile sound support into the kernel, > > printing already gave me a little trouble. Problem is is that this is > > not a test/learning machine - this is my daughter's machine. I don't > > want to tell her she has to be off it for days and days while I learn > > about makefile, compiling the kernel (for the first time), etc. So, my > > question is: Is Rh 6.2 going to so much faster on this machine that's > > it's going to be worth my daughter being without a computer for a month > > while I try to get it to do what 7.3 will do right out of the box? > > > > Please, spare the other hundreds of people on the list, the "Gee, Chris, > > I know the answer to your problem - it's called Windows - embrace the > > Beaast." comments - or at least send it offline - thanks. > > > > Chris > > Chris, > > I have just upgraded my P233 laptop to Red Hat 8. I have 64MB of RAM, > and it too is running slowly. Definitely, I am into swap, so my second > strategy for speeding things up is more RAM. More RAM will definitely help. > My first strategy for speeding things up is to run FVWM2 instead of > Gnome or KDE. There are a couple of other small window managers out > there, but I have a long history with FVWM. There are a couple of > other FVWM freaks in this user group, so you can get help. > > There was some talk about running an FVWM demo at one of the user > meetings. Is there any more interest in this? Consider xfce4 instead. It's a lightweight, functional desktop, reminiscent of CDE. RAM hungry apps like OpenOffice or Mozilla will still be unwieldy (without a RAM upgrade) but you can run a decent desktop on this machine if you choose your components carefully. Debian is arguably a better choice for a low power machine as you have far more ready made packages to choose from; thus, you can better experiment with tradoffs between footprint and functionality. Be prepared, however, to spend a good bit of time customizing it to your liking. -- tim writer starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 02:03:53 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:03:53 -0400 Subject: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030820104012.01ecc730-Nf8GSVjHSL5zk1aGpazrEgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20030820104012.01ecc730@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: <001401c36788$7c3a13e0$459d9c18@main> > > At 02:32 AM 08/20/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >Does anyone know of a good course to learn PHP from absolutely nothing? > >Before anyone tells me to RTFM, I would like to learn from someone else > >and ask questions :) > > A course would be one way to learn PHP. Do you need one? It would depend > on > your background. If you have used Perl and/or C in the past then you may > be > able to pick up one of those "Teach Yourself PHP in X Days" type books. I > have been programming a long time (over 20 years) and have used a variety > of languages. A decent reference text is all I need to pick up the > specific > syntax of a new language and to learn what are the available built-in > library routines to do various things. I went through the first 8 hours of > an "...in 24 hours" book on PHP in about 1 hour and another 2 hours for > the > next several "hours" in the book. > > Picking up a book can be much cheaper than most formal courses and you can > go at your own pace. It will depend on how much programming background you > have, if you have used languages with similar syntax, and if you can pick > things up from books easily (some people can't). YMMV (Your Mileage May > Vary before someone asks. :-) It all depends, I find that while I can learn a lot from a book sometimes, (for example going from zero to newbie using the RH bible), I don't always have the luxury of six months to spend on something like this. I don't have much programming experience aside from Lingo and HTML, and thought it would be easier to learn by example from someone else. Its also good to be able to ask questions when you get stuck. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 04:29:43 2003 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:29:43 -0400 Subject: 6.2 vs. 7.3 In-Reply-To: References: <3F403034.6D89CAD7@onlink.net> <20030819224911.2ed0b559.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20030821002943.314ad114.hgibson@eol.ca> On 20 Aug 2003 21:41:01 -0400 Tim Writer wrote: > Howard Gibson writes: > > My first strategy for speeding things up is to run FVWM2 instead of > > Gnome or KDE. There are a couple of other small window managers out > > there, but I have a long history with FVWM. There are a couple of > > other FVWM freaks in this user group, so you can get help. > > > > There was some talk about running an FVWM demo at one of the user > > meetings. Is there any more interest in this? > > Consider xfce4 instead. It's a lightweight, functional desktop, reminiscent > of CDE. RAM hungry apps like OpenOffice or Mozilla will still be unwieldy > (without a RAM upgrade) but you can run a decent desktop on this machine if > you choose your components carefully. Debian is arguably a better choice for > a low power machine as you have far more ready made packages to choose from; > thus, you can better experiment with tradoffs between footprint and > functionality. Be prepared, however, to spend a good bit of time customizing > it to your liking. Tim, I tried XFCE briefly a couple of years ago. It buggered up my Gnome configuration somehow. It wrote over Sawfish theme I had picked out. This probably is irrelevant now, since they keep changing Gnome. I used to use FVWM2 as my Gnome window manager, but then Gnome changed and intercepted the mouse menus, which are one of the things I like about FVWM. Wasn't somebody around here working on a distribution for older smaller computers? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From evan-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 01:48:37 2003 From: evan-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:48:37 -0400 Subject: City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20030819130536.00a2f660-DAYOI8RREjRRKGs565JiGbDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.1.32.20030819130536.00a2f660@inbox.attcanada.ca> Message-ID: <3F4424F5.7050708@lpi.org> I may have missed this if it had previously been on the list. If this is a repeat, sorry. http://www.itworldcanada.com/index.cfm/ci_id/46194.htm Very interesting stuff. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 12:41:11 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!) In-Reply-To: <3F4424F5.7050708-WHMkLBA7RDE@public.gmane.org> References: <3F4424F5.7050708@lpi.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > > http://www.itworldcanada.com/index.cfm/ci_id/46194.htm > The Metro Ref library at 789 Yonge St has over 100 desktop computers, all running windows. (The TPL runs windows exclusively.) Linux systems are cheap and easy; the IT staff at "Children's Services Division" of the City know that already, as reported by itworld. Windows systems are expensive to operate and maintain and may be a primary cause of stress. Perhaps this leads to road rage and spousal or child abuse. Shouldn't we, as taxpayers, invest in linux, and save ourselves and our neighbours $$$ and stress? A good place to start might be to ask for linux to be installed on one computer in the Metro Ref. This would be a prime location to educate John Q. Public... cheekily yours, max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 13:15:08 2003 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:15:08 -0400 Subject: 6.2 vs. 7.3 In-Reply-To: References: <3F403034.6D89CAD7@onlink.net> <20030819224911.2ed0b559.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <3F44C5DC.7000002@truxtar.com> Tim Writer wrote: >Howard Gibson writes: > > >More RAM will definitely help. > > I agree. I found that a RAM upgrade from 64MB to 192MB will almost double your overall performance. > > >> My first strategy for speeding things up is to run FVWM2 instead of >> Gnome or KDE. There are a couple of other small window managers out >> there, but I have a long history with FVWM. There are a couple of >> other FVWM freaks in this user group, so you can get help. >> >> There was some talk about running an FVWM demo at one of the user >> meetings. Is there any more interest in this? >> >> > >Consider xfce4 instead. It's a lightweight, functional desktop, reminiscent >of CDE. > Also have a look at Fluxbox. It is a very simple yet powerful window manager with a right-click based menu system for starting applications and configuration. Great for customized setups; it doesn't share Redhat's default menus. --- Anton -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 13:58:00 2003 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:58:00 -0400 Subject: City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <79DCABDC-D3DF-11D7-9403-00039310151E@axxent.ca> On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 08:41 AM, Max Blanco wrote: > Shouldn't we, as taxpayers, invest in linux, and save ourselves and our > neighbours $$$ and stress? I just sent a letter to the Globe and Mail (we'll see what happens) suggesting that exposing Microsoft products to the Internet, and thereby inviting vandals to "have at it", is an abuse of the trust we put in civil servants to manage resources for the good of the taxpayers. (This in reference to a recent article titled, "Blaster Worm hampering power repair.") ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 12:27:19 2003 From: fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org (Robert Findlay) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:27:19 -0400 Subject: City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!) In-Reply-To: <3F4424F5.7050708-WHMkLBA7RDE@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.1.32.20030819130536.00a2f660@inbox.attcanada.ca> <3.0.1.32.20030819130536.00a2f660@inbox.attcanada.ca> <3F4424F5.7050708@lpi.org> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20030821082719.00a381f8@inbox.attcanada.ca> Even more interesting when you find out that it was essentially implemented by Sun Microsystems ... one of the two major vendors who have publically acknowledged financing our current IP extortionist. At 09:48 PM 8/20/03 -0400, you wrote: >I may have missed this if it had previously been on the list. If this is a >repeat, sorry. > >http://www.itworldcanada.com/index.cfm/ci_id/46194.htm > >Very interesting stuff. > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 14:23:51 2003 From: btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (bill traynor) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:23:51 -0400 Subject: lost mail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F44D5F7.8000004@linux.ca> Peter L. Peres wrote: >Hi, > >I have posted a message to this list twice, in the last 2 hours. I have >not seen it. It is relative to the SCO vs. Linux debate. Who or what do I >need to do or contact to clarify where my email got deleted ? > > For the record, I've posted a few times in the last 24 hours and the posts seem to get lost in the netherworld. Oh well, I'll try again. >Peter >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 14:31:16 2003 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:31:16 -0400 Subject: lost mail In-Reply-To: <3F44D5F7.8000004-zC6tqtfhjqE@public.gmane.org> References: <3F44D5F7.8000004@linux.ca> Message-ID: <3F44D7B4.3060001@alteeve.com> Same here... I posted last night and nothing yet. Are you guys on Sympatico? Maddy bill traynor wrote: > Peter L. Peres wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I have posted a message to this list twice, in the last 2 hours. I have >> not seen it. It is relative to the SCO vs. Linux debate. Who or what do I >> need to do or contact to clarify where my email got deleted ? >> >> > > For the record, I've posted a few times in the last 24 hours and the > posts seem to get lost in the netherworld. Oh well, I'll try again. > >> Peter >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 14:35:27 2003 From: btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (bill traynor) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:35:27 -0400 Subject: lost mail In-Reply-To: <3F44D7B4.3060001-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3F44D5F7.8000004@linux.ca> <3F44D7B4.3060001@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3F44D8AF.9080906@linux.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Same here... I posted last night and nothing yet. Are you guys on > Sympatico? Nope, Rogers. Funny, my replies are getting through, but my new posts are not. > > Maddy > > bill traynor wrote: > >> Peter L. Peres wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have posted a message to this list twice, in the last 2 hours. I have >>> not seen it. It is relative to the SCO vs. Linux debate. Who or what >>> do I >>> need to do or contact to clarify where my email got deleted ? >>> >>> >> >> For the record, I've posted a few times in the last 24 hours and the >> posts seem to get lost in the netherworld. Oh well, I'll try again. >> >>> Peter >>> -- >>> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 14:38:32 2003 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:38:32 -0400 Subject: lost mail In-Reply-To: <3F44D8AF.9080906-zC6tqtfhjqE@public.gmane.org> References: <3F44D5F7.8000004@linux.ca> <3F44D7B4.3060001@alteeve.com> <3F44D8AF.9080906@linux.ca> Message-ID: <3F44D968.3020209@alteeve.com> Humm, I never noticed that... I will try reposting my message from last night fresh and see what happenes. (It is off topic anyway so I guess it's okay if it gets lost! :) ). Maddy bill traynor wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Same here... I posted last night and nothing yet. Are you guys on >> Sympatico? > > > Nope, Rogers. > > Funny, my replies are getting through, but my new posts are not. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 15:06:25 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:06:25 -0400 Subject: lost mail In-Reply-To: <3F44D7B4.3060001-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3F44D7B4.3060001@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <004c01c367f5$cdccb7e0$459d9c18@main> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Madison > Kelly > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 10:31 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Re: lost mail > > Same here... I posted last night and nothing yet. Are you guys on > Sympatico? > > Maddy I am on Rogers and have noticed posts going through slow, or not at all. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 15:10:14 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 21 Aug 2003 11:10:14 -0400 Subject: Am I still on the TLUG list? In-Reply-To: <000401c36742$71b4c280$d02810ac-9WhAb0OqVy0@public.gmane.org> References: <000401c36742$71b4c280$d02810ac@o10136> Message-ID: "Gregory Pleau" writes: > I've actually resorted to HOTMAIL of all things to get my mail. > Maybe you should get one of those linux.ca email accounts and forward it to > your Symcraptico address... ? That might get around the filter (haven't > tried it myself). > - Greg > Just setting up auk-nord-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org now.... Hi Greg, Let me know if this works. linux.ca is hosted at the same colo as ss.org and is also a TLUG/Drew Sullivan computer. BTW, for everyone that is interested in an @linux.ca alias, it is a free service that just forwards yourloginname-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org to the e-mail address that you registered with. TTYL, -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 15:11:56 2003 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:11:56 -0400 Subject: lost mail In-Reply-To: <004c01c367f5$cdccb7e0$459d9c18-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <004c01c367f5$cdccb7e0$459d9c18@main> Message-ID: <3F44E13C.6000302@alteeve.com> I think Bill has narrowed the problem to being a fresh-post problem. I replied to his message which came through fine then immidiately sent a repost of a new message I tried to send last night, and it did NOT come through (again). Admins?? Maddy Sidney Shapiro wrote: > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of > > Madison > >>Kelly >>Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 10:31 AM >>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Re: lost mail >> >>Same here... I posted last night and nothing yet. Are you guys on >>Sympatico? >> >>Maddy > > > > I am on Rogers and have noticed posts going through slow, or not at all. > > Sid > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 15:30:16 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!) In-Reply-To: <79DCABDC-D3DF-11D7-9403-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <79DCABDC-D3DF-11D7-9403-00039310151E@axxent.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Phillip Mills wrote: > On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 08:41 AM, Max Blanco wrote: > > > Shouldn't we, as taxpayers, invest in linux, and save ourselves and our > > neighbours $$$ and stress? > > I just sent a letter to the Globe and Mail (we'll see what happens) > suggesting that exposing Microsoft products to the Internet, and > thereby inviting vandals to "have at it", is an abuse of the trust we > put in civil servants to manage resources for the good of the taxpayers. > (This in reference to a recent article titled, "Blaster Worm hampering > power repair.") > I hope you larded your letter with buzzwords like "redundant systems", "failsafe backups", etc. The CDROM installation of linux of which City employee Jody McConkey spoke is painless and secure and, tho' I have no experience with virii, could be updated to curtail the behaviour of the virus within fifteen minutes. (just update /etc/services?) It seems to me that we might prevail upon a writer with whom the tlug had an acquaintance to listen and publish an article. I deleted an email about David Ticoll, a Globe writer, not too long ago. It had to do with installation... Maybe he could be persuaded to lend an ear? > > Shouldn't we, as taxpayers, invest in linux, and save ourselves and our > > neighbours $$$ and stress? I feel that this is an important question. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 15:53:46 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:53:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: lost mail In-Reply-To: <3F44E13C.6000302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <004c01c367f5$cdccb7e0$459d9c18@main> <3F44E13C.6000302@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Madison Kelly wrote: > I think Bill has narrowed the problem to being a fresh-post problem. I > replied to his message which came through fine then immidiately sent a > repost of a new message I tried to send last night, and it did NOT come > through (again). Without further testing it is hard to say. I still think the problem related to path mtu discovery. Fortunmately this is easy to test. Whoever has access to the mail server just needs to look for the file /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_no_pmtu_disc. If the file is not present then pmtu is not running and we don't need to worry about it. If the file does exist, and contains a 0, set it to 1 to turn off pmtu discovery. If the problem goes away it was pmtu discovery afterall. If the problem does not go away then it was not the problem. When I have seen this problem before it has allowed some emails through but not others, even to the same site. Whether an email got through or not was because: (a) it was small enough to not get fragmented at a packet level so pmtu didn't matter or (b) the routing path was changing and so the packets weren't passing through the broken router/firewall. For those interested the problems with pmtu discovery relate largely to misconfigured routers and firewalls, specifically people blocking tcp header info that was "reserved for future use" and then failing to unblock it when the future use came about. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 17:05:24 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:05:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: setserial, problem connecting: debian/woody powerpc + modem In-Reply-To: <20030818210506.GA24891-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20030818210506.GA24891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > the modem is on. > > the modem is plugged in to the line. > > the modem works well in macos. > > Perhaps using some setserial command to setup /dev/ttyS0 on the hex and > irq given would work. Don't usually bother specifying the uart or > anything like that. > # dmesg | grep tty tty00 at 0xf3013020 (irq = 15) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = modem tty01 at 0xf3013000 (irq = 16) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = printer # setserial /dev/ttyS0 /dev/ttyS0 UART: unknown Port: 0xf3013020 IRQ: 15 # setserial /dev/ttyS1 /dev/ttyS1 UART: unknown Port: 0xf3013000 IRQ: 16 # rm /dev/modem # ln -s /dev/ttyS0 /dev/modem # cat chatfile ABORT BUSY ABORT 'NO CARRIER' '' ATZ OK ATDT 4165551212 # chat -f chatfile did not connect. What is the problem here? tia, max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 18:32:08 2003 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:32:08 -0400 Subject: City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 11:30 AM, Max Blanco wrote: > I hope you larded your letter with buzzwords like "redundant systems", > "failsafe backups", etc. No, I'd put that into a longer piece. My main point this morning was that this stuff is now referenced like inevitable, "force of nature"-type events that "just happen" to these poor organizations...instead of being the predictable outcome of poorly considered business decisions. I tried to stay at the philosophical level rather than the technical. If I could get people to believe that quality was as least as important as herd instinct when choosing a system, then would be a good time to bring up the details of sane configuration and management. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 19:53:50 2003 From: verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Toomas Karmo) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:53:50 -0400 Subject: testing: please ignore Message-ID: <20030821195350.GA19360@interlog.com> Universal Coordinated Time (= UTC = EST+5 = EDT+4): 20030821T195346Z testing testing testing Please ignore. Tom = Tom Karmo http://www.metascientia.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 20:52:12 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:52:12 -0400 Subject: setserial, problem connecting: debian/woody powerpc + modem In-Reply-To: References: <20030818210506.GA24891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030821205211.GA1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 01:05:24PM -0400, Max Blanco wrote: > > > On Mon, 18 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > the modem is on. > > > the modem is plugged in to the line. > > > the modem works well in macos. > > > > Perhaps using some setserial command to setup /dev/ttyS0 on the hex and > > irq given would work. Don't usually bother specifying the uart or > > anything like that. > > > > # dmesg | grep tty > tty00 at 0xf3013020 (irq = 15) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = modem > tty01 at 0xf3013000 (irq = 16) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = printer > # setserial /dev/ttyS0 > /dev/ttyS0 UART: unknown Port: 0xf3013020 IRQ: 15 > # setserial /dev/ttyS1 > /dev/ttyS1 UART: unknown Port: 0xf3013000 IRQ: 16 > # rm /dev/modem > # ln -s /dev/ttyS0 /dev/modem > # cat chatfile > ABORT BUSY ABORT 'NO CARRIER' '' ATZ OK ATDT 4165551212 > > # chat -f chatfile > > did not connect. What is the problem here? Well after asking a PPC user, he says the setserial output looks normal (macs have no UART apparently) and the port and irq looks fine. Perhaps the cable to the modem is the wrong kind or broken, or the modem doesn't work. Can you try the modem with another machine (PC perhaps) to check it? Also make sure you are using the right port on the back, and apparently modem and printer cables although they look similar are not interchangable on a mac (I think the modem one is crossover and the printer one isn't.) Are you sure it works in MacOS as it is right now? Which kernel version are you using? Could you try: cat > /dev/ttyS0 +++ATH0 ATE1V1 AT&Q Which lights are on on the modem? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 21 21:36:03 2003 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 21 Aug 2003 17:36:03 -0400 Subject: 6.2 vs. 7.3 In-Reply-To: <20030821002943.314ad114.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3F403034.6D89CAD7@onlink.net> <20030819224911.2ed0b559.hgibson@eol.ca> <20030821002943.314ad114.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: Howard Gibson writes: > On 20 Aug 2003 21:41:01 -0400 > Tim Writer wrote: > > > Howard Gibson writes: > > > My first strategy for speeding things up is to run FVWM2 instead of > > > Gnome or KDE. There are a couple of other small window managers out > > > there, but I have a long history with FVWM. There are a couple of > > > other FVWM freaks in this user group, so you can get help. > > > > > > There was some talk about running an FVWM demo at one of the user > > > meetings. Is there any more interest in this? > > > > Consider xfce4 instead. It's a lightweight, functional desktop, reminiscent > > of CDE. RAM hungry apps like OpenOffice or Mozilla will still be unwieldy > > (without a RAM upgrade) but you can run a decent desktop on this machine if > > you choose your components carefully. Debian is arguably a better choice for > > a low power machine as you have far more ready made packages to choose from; > > thus, you can better experiment with tradoffs between footprint and > > functionality. Be prepared, however, to spend a good bit of time customizing > > it to your liking. > > Tim, > > I tried XFCE briefly a couple of years ago. A couple of years is a long time. Xfce4 appears to be a complete rewrite using gtk libraries. -- tim writer starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 01:42:44 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 21:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: setserial, problem connecting: debian/woody powerpc + modem In-Reply-To: References: <20030818210506.GA24891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1074.64.7.157.236.1061516564.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> Max Blanco said: > # dmesg | grep tty > tty00 at 0xf3013020 (irq = 15) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = modem > tty01 at 0xf3013000 (irq = 16) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = printer > # setserial /dev/ttyS0 > /dev/ttyS0 UART: unknown Port: 0xf3013020 IRQ: 15 > # setserial /dev/ttyS1 > /dev/ttyS1 UART: unknown Port: 0xf3013000 IRQ: 16 Maybe it's just me, but dmesg says "tty00" while you used "ttyS0" for setserial. Have you tried "setserial /dev/tty00" ? At the very least, do an "ls -l tty*" (which you may have to pipe through less) and see what you find. HPH! Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Reminds me of my safari in Africa. Somebody forgot the corkscrew and for several days we had to live on nothing but food and water. -- W. C. Fields ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 14:21:31 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PROBLEM SOLVED! 8) was Re:setserial, problem connecting: debian/woody powerpc + modem In-Reply-To: <1074.64.7.157.236.1061516564.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org> References: <1074.64.7.157.236.1061516564.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Kareem Shehata wrote: > Max Blanco said: > > # dmesg | grep tty > > tty00 at 0xf3013020 (irq = 15) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = modem > > tty01 at 0xf3013000 (irq = 16) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = printer > > # setserial /dev/ttyS0 > > /dev/ttyS0 UART: unknown Port: 0xf3013020 IRQ: 15 > > # setserial /dev/ttyS1 > > /dev/ttyS1 UART: unknown Port: 0xf3013000 IRQ: 16 > > Maybe it's just me, but dmesg says "tty00" while you used "ttyS0" for > setserial. Have you tried "setserial /dev/tty00" ? At the very least, do > an "ls -l tty*" (which you may have to pipe through less) and see what you > find. > HPH! > No. It's not just you. It's an indirection used by the ppc kernel to mislead inexperienced ppc users like yours truly. It SAYS "tty00"; it MEANS "ttyS0". That's problem number one. Lennart helped me to discover that. Thanks, Lennart! The "setserial /dev/ttyS0" command and the "dmesg | grep tty" must match for hex port number and irq. (Else, setserial allows one to change settings. Oddly, the kernel "knew" it was misleading! The kernel put the right hex address and irq in /dev/ttyS0 but instead it chose to report /dev/tty00 in the dmesg.) My problem was at least three-fold: 1) I didn't watch the modem lights hawkishly while I cycled through the /dev/tty* 2) I didn't know about the setserial command at first 3) my chat script was (and is) faulty Once I had straightened out the /dev/tty00 -> /dev/ttyS0 fubar, and with the help of Lennart's "cat > /dev/ttyS0" instruction, I knew I could talk to the modem. I tried the chat script and got stumped. That's when I searched through the debian diskset: I dug through my cdrom sets for minicom and it was on a debian disk labelled "binary-2". I'm writing to you now through my ppc modem... sheesh! Two weeks of off-and-on debugging. Thanks to all who helped. (If anyone needs any modem help with ppc, send him my way.) cheers, max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 14:29:50 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:29:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: throuh which /dev port does "chat" cmd look? Message-ID: Through which /dev port does "chat" cmd look? I can't find this info anywhere in the chat man page. There exists no "usr/share/doc/chat" directory. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 15:37:59 2003 From: verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Toomas Karmo) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:37:59 -0400 Subject: many mails missing this August Message-ID: <20030822153759.GA1234@interlog.com> I've had many posts go missing. Rob Brockway has just pointed out that LARGE mails are particularly vulnerable. This may explain why my test mails show up, and yet my larger postings vanish. I've had this problem for perhaps the past 3 or 5 weeks. Tom = Tom Karmo 416-971-6955 http://www.metascientia.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 17:49:49 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:49:49 -0400 Subject: setserial, problem connecting: debian/woody powerpc + modem In-Reply-To: <1074.64.7.157.236.1061516564.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org> References: <20030818210506.GA24891@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1074.64.7.157.236.1061516564.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> Message-ID: <20030822174949.GB1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 21, 2003 at 09:42:44PM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote: > Max Blanco said: > > # dmesg | grep tty > > tty00 at 0xf3013020 (irq = 15) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = modem > > tty01 at 0xf3013000 (irq = 16) is a Z8530 ESCC; port = printer > > # setserial /dev/ttyS0 > > /dev/ttyS0 UART: unknown Port: 0xf3013020 IRQ: 15 > > # setserial /dev/ttyS1 > > /dev/ttyS1 UART: unknown Port: 0xf3013000 IRQ: 16 > > Maybe it's just me, but dmesg says "tty00" while you used "ttyS0" for > setserial. Have you tried "setserial /dev/tty00" ? At the very least, do > an "ls -l tty*" (which you may have to pipe through less) and see what you > find. > HPH! And on an x86 it says ttyS00 and ttyS01 when the normal names in /dev are ttyS0 and ttyS1. /dev entries are just names for a major/minor device. They mean nothing other than a reference method. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 19:13:01 2003 From: fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org (bob findlay) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:13:01 -0400 Subject: CLIC - How do we join? Message-ID: <20030822190736.CF485B8C9B@outbox.allstream.net> After viewing the interesting article at: http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2003082200226NWCYLL and then going to the website at: http://www.linux.ca/clic/ It was completely not obvious as to how one goes about joining this effort. Anyone else found the secret passage? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 19:16:51 2003 From: btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (bill traynor) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:16:51 -0400 Subject: CLIC - How do we join? In-Reply-To: <20030822190736.CF485B8C9B-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822190736.CF485B8C9B@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <3F466C23.1040600@linux.ca> bob findlay wrote: >After viewing the interesting article at: > >http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2003082200226NWCYLL > >and then going to the website at: > >http://www.linux.ca/clic/ > >It was completely not obvious as to how one goes about joining this effort. > >Anyone else found the secret passage? >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > Hi Bob, You'd of heard about this earlier if my posts would actually make it to this list. Anyhoo, you can join the sco-issues mailing list here: http://www.ss.org/mailman/listinfo/sco-issues/ Also, check out www.linux.ca/clic/ for all of our news. Or drop by #clue-talk on freenode to join the chatter. Cheers, Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 19:52:27 2003 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:52:27 -0400 Subject: CLIC - How do we join? Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E283190C6@lynchmail.lynch.msft> With all this talk about posts not making the list - who is running the list? As an aside, I have tried a few times to contact people about problems I experienced in the past, but was never answered. So my question is... Who do I contact when there is a problem? Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: bill traynor [mailto:btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org] Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 3:17 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org bob findlay wrote: >After viewing the interesting article at: > >http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2003082200226NWCYLL > >and then going to the website at: > >http://www.linux.ca/clic/ > >It was completely not obvious as to how one goes about joining this effort. > >Anyone else found the secret passage? >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > Hi Bob, You'd of heard about this earlier if my posts would actually make it to this list. Anyhoo, you can join the sco-issues mailing list here: http://www.ss.org/mailman/listinfo/sco-issues/ Also, check out www.linux.ca/clic/ for all of our news. Or drop by #clue-talk on freenode to join the chatter. Cheers, Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 19:50:10 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:50:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CLIC - How do we join? In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E283190C6-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org> References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E283190C6@lynchmail.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <62913.64.228.103.185.1061581810.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > So my question is... Who do I contact when there is a problem? Drew is the server dude. > bob findlay wrote: >>After viewing the interesting article at: >>http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2003082200226NWCYLL >>and then going to the website at: >>http://www.linux.ca/clic/ >>It was completely not obvious as to how one goes about joining this >> effort. There's a link on the left column that says "join". Try that? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 20:10:25 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org) Date: 22 Aug 2003 20:10:25 -0000 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: <20030822201025.984.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> I was at SCO Forum this week and viewed some of the disputed code and SCO's explanations both without and with NDA. They have a valid case. Linux kernel 2.4 to 2.6 contains AIX code which allows scalability beyond that which would have been available in a "regular development timeframe". Anyone interested in a copy of the non-nda PPT let me know and I'll email you a copy. I've tried several postings to the list server but it does'nt seem to be working. Rick Tomaschuk rickt-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Novell Resource: http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 20:17:12 2003 From: btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (bill traynor) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:17:12 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030822201025.984.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822201025.984.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <3F467A48.2000801@linux.ca> rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org wrote: >I was at SCO Forum this week and viewed some of the disputed code and >SCO's explanations both without and with NDA. They have a valid case. >Linux kernel 2.4 to 2.6 contains AIX code which allows scalability >beyond that which would have been available in a "regular development >timeframe". Anyone interested in a copy of the non-nda PPT let me know >and I'll email you a copy. I've tried several postings to the list >server but it does'nt seem to be working. > > Then why won't they just show everyone the code? And I'd like a copy of the PPT, please email to btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thanks Bill >Rick Tomaschuk >rickt-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org >Novell Resource: http://www.TorontoNUI.ca >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 20:17:52 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 23:17:52 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030822201025.984.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822201025.984.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I was at SCO Forum this week and viewed some of the disputed code and > SCO's explanations both without and with NDA. They have a valid case. > Linux kernel 2.4 to 2.6 contains AIX code which allows scalability > beyond that which would have been available in a "regular development > timeframe". Anyone interested in a copy of the non-nda PPT let me know > and I'll email you a copy. I've tried several postings to the list > server but it does'nt seem to be working. I would like one. Maybe put it on a webpage ? Why won't the list server handle it ? Is it large ? tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 20:27:53 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org) Date: 22 Aug 2003 20:27:53 -0000 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: <20030822202753.5538.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> I was skeptical but they have a compelling case. In the ppt there are "greek characters" on 2 pages which I had to sign an NDA to view. To the best of my knowledge most of the disputed code was available at SCO FORUM since only 27+ lines of code are required to sue IBM. SCO is a legitimate and complete owner of UNIX System V despite Novell's claims to the contrary. Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger. I have stakes in Novell, Linux, SCO and other computing interests. THE LIST SERVER IS'N WORKING PROPERLY!!! Best regards, Rick Tomaschuk rickt-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Novell Resource http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:17:12 -0400, bill traynor wrote : > rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >I was at SCO Forum this week and viewed some of the disputed code and > >SCO's explanations both without and with NDA. They have a valid case. > >Linux kernel 2.4 to 2.6 contains AIX code which allows scalability > >beyond that which would have been available in a "regular development > >timeframe". Anyone interested in a copy of the non-nda PPT let me know > >and I'll email you a copy. I've tried several postings to the list > >server but it does'nt seem to be working. > > > > > Then why won't they just show everyone the code? > > And I'd like a copy of the PPT, please email to btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org > > Thanks > Bill > > >Rick Tomaschuk > >rickt-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org > >Novell Resource: http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > >-- > >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 20:44:48 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:44:48 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030822201025.984.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822201025.984.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <3F4680C0.40705@codemonkeys.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 22/08/2003 16:10, rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org wrote: | I was at SCO Forum this week and viewed some of the disputed code and | SCO's explanations both without and with NDA. They have a valid case. | Linux kernel 2.4 to 2.6 contains AIX code which allows scalability | beyond that which would have been available in a "regular development | timeframe". Anyone interested in a copy of the non-nda PPT let me know | and I'll email you a copy. I've tried several postings to the list | server but it does'nt seem to be working. Couple of points here, Rick: 1. Unless you're a judge in a US Court of Law with jurisdiction over this case, I'd strongly recommend you *never* state it as a fact that SCO does or does not have a valid case. Signing SCO's NDA and sitting through their PowerPoint presentation doesn't make you qualified to make such judgments, at least not in a public forum such as this one. Nobody's gonna stop you, but it can't be considered anything but FUD and thus your credibility takes the one-way trip down the sewers of our fine City. 2. Assuming it's the same presentation everyone else saw, it's already been taken apart by many UNIX experts, and Bruce Perens himself wrote an analysis of the presentation (http://www.perens.com/SCO/SCOSlideShow.html). 3. Let's talk logic for a moment here: IBM is at risk to lose $3bn, maybe more, from a company they can buy for $25M. Do you honestly think IBM's army of IP lawyers (and IBM is rumoured to have the largest collection of those in history of human kind) overlooked that and it took *you* to figure the case is in SCO's favour? At the end, I'm gonna tell you something you should've been told a long time ago: not everything you see on a PowerPoint slide is necessarily true. - -- Emir. "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election ~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, ~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/RoDAuSy542G+Z7QRAkKMAKCLsA9tfnF+oMR00aOBQEB8IQf4SACfWDfS qD03b4L0/3ootp3N7J5xsEA= =5Dda -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 20:54:53 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: 22 Aug 2003 20:54:53 -0000 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: <20030822205453.11806.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Cool your jets buddy, I'm just passing along what I saw. I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else. RickT On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:44:48 -0400, Emir wrote : > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 22/08/2003 16:10, rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > | I was at SCO Forum this week and viewed some of the disputed code and > | SCO's explanations both without and with NDA. They have a valid case. > | Linux kernel 2.4 to 2.6 contains AIX code which allows scalability > | beyond that which would have been available in a "regular development > | timeframe". Anyone interested in a copy of the non-nda PPT let me know > | and I'll email you a copy. I've tried several postings to the list > | server but it does'nt seem to be working. > > Couple of points here, Rick: > > 1. Unless you're a judge in a US Court of Law with jurisdiction over this > case, I'd strongly recommend you *never* state it as a fact that SCO does or > does not have a valid case. Signing SCO's NDA and sitting through their > PowerPoint presentation doesn't make you qualified to make such judgments, at > least not in a public forum such as this one. Nobody's gonna stop you, but it > can't be considered anything but FUD and thus your credibility takes the > one-way trip down the sewers of our fine City. > > 2. Assuming it's the same presentation everyone else saw, it's already been > taken apart by many UNIX experts, and Bruce Perens himself wrote an analysis > of the presentation (http://www.perens.com/SCO/SCOSlideShow.html). > > 3. Let's talk logic for a moment here: IBM is at risk to lose $3bn, maybe > more, from a company they can buy for $25M. Do you honestly think IBM's army > of IP lawyers (and IBM is rumoured to have the largest collection of those in > history of human kind) overlooked that and it took *you* to figure the case is > in SCO's favour? > > At the end, I'm gonna tell you something you should've been told a long time > ago: not everything you see on a PowerPoint slide is necessarily true. > > > - -- > Emir. > > "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election > ~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, > ~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/RoDAuSy542G+Z7QRAkKMAKCLsA9tfnF+oMR00aOBQEB8IQf4SACfWDfS > qD03b4L0/3ootp3N7J5xsEA= > =5Dda > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:10:19 2003 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:10:19 +0300 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:10:22 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:10:22 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030822205453.11806.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822205453.11806.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <3F4686BE.10105@codemonkeys.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 22/08/2003 16:54, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: | Cool your jets buddy, I'm just passing along what I saw. | I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else. 1. No jets to cool. 2. I'm not your buddy. 3. You're making a statement of fact on something you simply have no way of knowing. "They have a valid case" are your exact words, I'm not misconstruing anything. Can that be taken as anything but a statement of fact? I don't think so. 4. You're entitled to your opinion, but if you want to express it in a public forum then you ought to make it clear that it's *your* opinion and the readers will decide how relevant it is, which in this particular case really isn't, as we have already established you're not judge in a US Court of Law with jurisdiction over this case. - -- Emir. "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election ~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, ~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/Roa+uSy542G+Z7QRAgJ9AJ9V1iWv8yKoLmwRy4JK1Leesrjc3ACfTRLi 3AkLR5kzRP1pT8imLiE+A3A= =ekC+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:14:47 2003 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:14:47 +0300 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:16:47 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: 22 Aug 2003 21:16:47 -0000 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: <20030822211647.16721.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> You are attempting to remove my voice even though I have the same right to speak as you do. I think I have valid information to post. What is your last name....Emir? I think I hear your mom calling... RickT On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:10:22 -0400, Emir wrote : > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 22/08/2003 16:54, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > | Cool your jets buddy, I'm just passing along what I saw. > | I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else. > > 1. No jets to cool. > 2. I'm not your buddy. > 3. You're making a statement of fact on something you simply have no way of > knowing. "They have a valid case" are your exact words, I'm not misconstruing > anything. Can that be taken as anything but a statement of fact? I don't > think so. > 4. You're entitled to your opinion, but if you want to express it in a public > forum then you ought to make it clear that it's *your* opinion and the readers > will decide how relevant it is, which in this particular case really isn't, as > we have already established you're not judge in a US Court of Law with > jurisdiction over this case. > > > - -- > Emir. > > "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election > ~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, > ~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/Roa+uSy542G+Z7QRAgJ9AJ9V1iWv8yKoLmwRy4JK1Leesrjc3ACfTRLi > 3AkLR5kzRP1pT8imLiE+A3A= > =ekC+ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:20:26 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Phillip Mills wrote: > No, I'd put that into a longer piece. My main point this morning was > that this stuff is now referenced like inevitable, "force of > nature"-type events that "just happen" to these poor > organizations...instead of being the predictable outcome of poorly > considered business decisions. > I think your analysis of the "force of nature" is spot on. I didn't see your letter in today's online version of the G+M. Care to share? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:25:13 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:25:13 -0400 Subject: Code Monkey??? In-Reply-To: <3F464D5C.6852.4A83F6E-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <3F464D5C.6852.4A83F6E@localhost> Message-ID: <3F468A39.6010301@codemonkeys.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 22/08/2003 17:05, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: | What are you? An ape?? Why not insult me in person or in private. What's your last | name Emir? Resorting to name calling will not help you win an argument, Rick. I'm not insulting you, I'm just responding to your post. You know, reacting so violently to something as minute as this is usually a sign of deeper insecurities... Not to mention it can give you ulcer. So I suggest you relax, after all it is teh ~ ,-----. ,-----. | | ,-----. |-----. | | | | |_____| |_____| |---- |_____| | | .----'| |__'__| |______ |______ | | |______ | | |_____| (this one's for you, bonnie) - -- Emir. "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election ~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, ~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/Roo5uSy542G+Z7QRAnHxAJ4vVMAJENo54GStDtnWBhg631nf6QCfYHYr p2zcFsVhvcQ1wQyytjQI1+Y= =ljww -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:28:35 2003 From: bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (misterbonnie) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:28:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Code Monkey??? In-Reply-To: <3F468A39.6010301-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw@public.gmane.org> References: <3F468A39.6010301@codemonkeys.org> Message-ID: TLUG - feel teh love ,%%%%%%%%%. ,&&&&&&&&&&. %&(x`x)&% ___\_;_/___ ( _ _ ) __\ \(o)(o)//_ | (m) (w) \ ___/ _ \/ . \/ | !,___/ \_____v____/\ \__ \__,! On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Emir wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 22/08/2003 17:05, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > | What are you? An ape?? Why not insult me in person or in private. What's > your last > | name Emir? > > Resorting to name calling will not help you win an argument, Rick. I'm not > insulting you, I'm just responding to your post. You know, reacting so > violently to something as minute as this is usually a sign of deeper > insecurities... Not to mention it can give you ulcer. > > So I suggest you relax, after all it is teh > ~ ,-----. ,-----. | | ,-----. |-----. | > | | | |_____| |_____| |---- |_____| | | .----'| > |__'__| |______ |______ | | |______ | | |_____| > > (this one's for you, bonnie) > > > - -- > Emir. > > "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election > ~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, > ~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/Roo5uSy542G+Z7QRAnHxAJ4vVMAJENo54GStDtnWBhg631nf6QCfYHYr > p2zcFsVhvcQ1wQyytjQI1+Y= > =ljww > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:30:33 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: 22 Aug 2003 21:30:33 -0000 Subject: Code Monkey??? Message-ID: <20030822213033.19725.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> I think you are in a "win/lose" position. I was just making a post on the list server which is relevant to the Linux effort. I would expect it was implicit that any posting from my email address were my opinion and observations. Are you really a monkey? RickT On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:25:13 -0400, Emir wrote : > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 22/08/2003 17:05, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > | What are you? An ape?? Why not insult me in person or in private. What's > your last > | name Emir? > > Resorting to name calling will not help you win an argument, Rick. I'm not > insulting you, I'm just responding to your post. You know, reacting so > violently to something as minute as this is usually a sign of deeper > insecurities... Not to mention it can give you ulcer. > > So I suggest you relax, after all it is teh > ~ ,-----. ,-----. | | ,-----. |-----. | > | | | |_____| |_____| |---- |_____| | | .----'| > |__'__| |______ |______ | | |______ | | |_____| > > (this one's for you, bonnie) > > > - -- > Emir. > > "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election > ~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, > ~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/Roo5uSy542G+Z7QRAnHxAJ4vVMAJENo54GStDtnWBhg631nf6QCfYHYr > p2zcFsVhvcQ1wQyytjQI1+Y= > =ljww > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:47:36 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:47:36 -0400 Subject: Code Monkey??? In-Reply-To: <20030822213033.19725.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822213033.19725.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <3F468F78.3030906@codemonkeys.org> On 22/08/2003 17:30, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I think you are in a "win/lose" position. I was just making a post on > the list server which is relevant to the Linux effort. I would expect > it was implicit that any posting from my email address were my opinion > and observations. Are you really a monkey? I thought I was having a discussion in technical forum, never thought this was about winning or losing. Back on topic, "They have a valid case" is a statement of fact, if you wanted to state an opinion, you'd have said "They *seem* (or *appear*) to have a valid case" or "I'd say they have a valid case". See the difference? __------__ /~ ~\ | //^\\//^\|\ Please God don't make Rick go /~~\ || o| |o|:~\ / to Heck, he doesn't want to | |6 ||___|_|_||:| / look stupid, it's just happens. \__. / o \/' / | ( O ) _/ /~~~~\ `\ \ / | |~~\ | ) ~------~`\ /' | | | / ____ /~~~)\ (_/' | | | /' | ( | | | | \ / __)/ \ \ \ \ \/ /' \ `\ \ \|\ / | |\___| \ | \____/ | | /^~> \ _/ < | | \ \ | | \ \ \ <- teh c0d3 m0n|<3y -^-\ \ | ) `\_______/^\______/ -- Emir. "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:53:41 2003 From: bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (misterbonnie) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:53:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Code Monkey??? In-Reply-To: <3F468F78.3030906-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw@public.gmane.org> References: <3F468F78.3030906@codemonkeys.org> Message-ID: ..ccCCCCCCCc.. , .ccCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC .cCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC. ``CCCCc _ .cCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCc `?CCCc +' ` - .ccCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCc `CCc ,' On 22/08/2003 17:30, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > > I think you are in a "win/lose" position. I was just making a post on > > the list server which is relevant to the Linux effort. I would expect > > it was implicit that any posting from my email address were my opinion > > and observations. Are you really a monkey? > > I thought I was having a discussion in technical forum, never thought this was > about winning or losing. Back on topic, "They have a valid case" is a > statement of fact, if you wanted to state an opinion, you'd have said "They > *seem* (or *appear*) to have a valid case" or "I'd say they have a valid > case". See the difference? > > __------__ > /~ ~\ > | //^\\//^\|\ Please God don't make Rick go > /~~\ || o| |o|:~\ / to Heck, he doesn't want to > | |6 ||___|_|_||:| / look stupid, it's just happens. > \__. / o \/' / > | ( O ) _/ > /~~~~\ `\ \ / > | |~~\ | ) ~------~`\ > /' | | | / ____ /~~~)\ > (_/' | | | /' | ( | > | | | \ / __)/ \ > \ \ \ \/ /' \ `\ > \ \|\ / | |\___| > \ | \____/ | | > /^~> \ _/ < > | | \ \ > | | \ \ \ <- teh c0d3 m0n|<3y > -^-\ \ | ) > `\_______/^\______/ > > > -- > Emir. > > "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election > ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, > and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 21:59:35 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: 22 Aug 2003 21:59:35 -0000 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: <20030822215935.26010.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Having viewed the presentation, SCO has a convincing argument to claim damages from IBM for 2.4-2.6 kernel for multirocessor, JFS, etc. code. MY UNDERSTANDING is that it is not SCO's intention to undermine the Linux effort but rather to survive as a "for profit" company in a free market. Provisions will be made for Linux...stay tuned to SCO! As for the "greek" code or otherwise in the powerpoint this was how it was presented PRIOR to NDA. My understanding is that SCO owns copyrights and trademarks for UNIX SYSTEM V. Most other (nearly all) UNIXes are based upon licences from SYSTEM V (AT&T) so SCO is at the root of the UNIX tree. I'm as amazed to hear all this as is everyone. As for reporters and their articles I've read and will continue to read all I can find. RickT On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:10:19 +0300, "E K" wrote : >
>

I have seen the ppt pages that you are refering. However, that is to naive to me (surprisingly the greek characters that you saw are a result of primitive font mapping that you get when the english text is viewed with symbols font.).

>

For a more informative reading on this case please read

>

http://www.opensource.org/sco-vs-ibm.html

>

More over, (What Reymond seemingly wasn't aware is that) Caldera's employee had been working on Linux JFS project as a project coordinator. Therefore, even if as sco claims there are offending codes, it is likely that it is inserted by their own.

>

Of couse, there are many other facts, (for example: sco owns one flavor of unix not all flavours; unix had many parallel development and so I don't see why sco own the license to AIX or HP-UX which are by far superior to sco's own product) at least to me, that makes the sco claim totally absured at best and out right dangerous at worst.

>

EK

>
>From: >
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >
>Subject: Re: Re: [TLUG]: SCO has valid case >
>Date: 22 Aug 2003 20:27:53 -0000 >
> >
>I was skeptical but they have a compelling case. In the ppt there are >
>"greek characters" on 2 pages which I had to sign an NDA to view. To >
>the best of my knowledge most of the disputed code was available at >
>SCO FORUM since only 27+ lines of code are required to sue IBM. SCO is >
>a legitimate and complete owner of UNIX System V despite Novell's >
>claims to the contrary. Don't shoot me I'm only the messenger. I have >
>stakes in Novell, Linux, SCO and other computing interests. THE LIST >
>SERVER IS'N WORKING PROPERLY!!! >
> >
>Best regards, >
>Rick Tomaschuk >
>rickt-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org >
>Novell Resource http://www.TorontoNUI.ca >
> >
>On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:17:12 -0400, bill traynor >
>wrote : >
> >
> > rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org wrote: >
> > >
> > >I was at SCO Forum this week and viewed some of the disputed code and >
> > >SCO's explanations both without and with NDA. They have a valid case. >
> > >Linux kernel 2.4 to 2.6 contains AIX code which allows scalability >
> > >beyond that which would have been available in a "regular development >
> > >timeframe". Anyone interested in a copy of the non-nda PPT let me know >
> > >and I'll email you a copy. I've tried several postings to the list >
> > >server but it does'nt seem to be working. >
> > > >
> > > >
> > Then why won't they just show everyone the code? >
> > >
> > And I'd like a copy of the PPT, please email to btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org >
> > >
> > Thanks >
> > Bill >
> > >
> > >Rick Tomaschuk >
> > >rickt-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org >
> > >Novell Resource: http://www.TorontoNUI.ca >
> > >-- >
> > >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >
> > >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >
> > >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>-- >
>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >

MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 22:03:53 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: 22 Aug 2003 22:03:53 -0000 Subject: Code Monkey??? Message-ID: <20030822220353.26912.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Get a wife and have some kids. Sounds like you have some sort of void in your life. ;>) RickT On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:47:36 -0400, Emir wrote : > On 22/08/2003 17:30, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > > I think you are in a "win/lose" position. I was just making a post on > > the list server which is relevant to the Linux effort. I would expect > > it was implicit that any posting from my email address were my opinion > > and observations. Are you really a monkey? > > I thought I was having a discussion in technical forum, never thought this was > about winning or losing. Back on topic, "They have a valid case" is a > statement of fact, if you wanted to state an opinion, you'd have said "They > *seem* (or *appear*) to have a valid case" or "I'd say they have a valid > case". See the difference? > > __------__ > /~ ~\ > | //^\\//^\|\ Please God don't make Rick go > /~~\ || o| |o|:~\ / to Heck, he doesn't want to > | |6 ||___|_|_||:| / look stupid, it's just happens. > \__. / o \/' / > | ( O ) _/ > /~~~~\ `\ \ / > | |~~\ | ) ~------~`\ > /' | | | / ____ /~~~)\ > (_/' | | | /' | ( | > | | | \ / __)/ \ > \ \ \ \/ /' \ `\ > \ \|\ / | |\___| > \ | \____/ | | > /^~> \ _/ < > | | \ \ > | | \ \ \ <- teh c0d3 m0n|<3y > -^-\ \ | ) > `\_______/^\______/ > > > -- > Emir. > > "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election > ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, > and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 22:17:44 2003 From: bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (misterbonnie) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:17:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Code Monkey??? In-Reply-To: <20030822220353.26912.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822220353.26912.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: THE IRONY! On 22 Aug 2003, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Get a wife and have some kids. Sounds like you have some sort of void > in your life. ;>) > RickT > > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:47:36 -0400, Emir wrote : > > > On 22/08/2003 17:30, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > > > > I think you are in a "win/lose" position. I was just making a post on > > > the list server which is relevant to the Linux effort. I would expect > > > it was implicit that any posting from my email address were my opinion > > > and observations. Are you really a monkey? > > > > I thought I was having a discussion in technical forum, never > thought this was > > about winning or losing. Back on topic, "They have a valid case" is a > > statement of fact, if you wanted to state an opinion, you'd have > said "They > > *seem* (or *appear*) to have a valid case" or "I'd say they have a > valid > > case". See the difference? > > > > __------__ > > /~ ~\ > > | //^\\//^\|\ Please God don't make Rick go > > /~~\ || o| |o|:~\ / to Heck, he doesn't want to > > | |6 ||___|_|_||:| / look stupid, it's just happens. > > \__. / o \/' / > > | ( O ) _/ > > /~~~~\ `\ \ / > > | |~~\ | ) ~------~`\ > > /' | | | / ____ /~~~)\ > > (_/' | | | /' | ( | > > | | | \ / __)/ \ > > \ \ \ \/ /' \ `\ > > \ \|\ / | |\___| > > \ | \____/ | | > > /^~> \ _/ < > > | | \ \ > > | | \ \ \ <- teh c0d3 m0n|<3y > > -^-\ \ | ) > > `\_______/^\______/ > > > > > > -- > > Emir. > > > > "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential > election > > ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a > lottery, > > and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew > Orlowski > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 22:37:13 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:37:13 -0400 Subject: Code Monkey??? In-Reply-To: <3F468F78.3030906-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822213033.19725.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <3F468F78.3030906@codemonkeys.org> Message-ID: <1061591832.32231.139.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 17:47, Emir wrote: > I thought I was having a discussion in technical forum, never thought this was > about winning or losing. Back on topic, "They have a valid case" is a > statement of fact, if you wanted to state an opinion, you'd have said "They > *seem* (or *appear*) to have a valid case" or "I'd say they have a valid > case". See the difference? Emir, you *appear* to be having too much fun. It has been a while since you graced TLUG with such foolishness. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 22:49:51 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:49:51 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030822215935.26010.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822215935.26010.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <1061592590.32231.153.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 17:59, Rick Tomaschuk may have wrote: > My understanding is that SCO owns copyrights and trademarks for > UNIX SYSTEM V. Err...but it is debatable whether they own the trademark to UNIX. IBM had a special contractually arrangement with AT&T. The other UNIX(s) that IBM bought have not had their agreements released. > Most other (nearly all) UNIXes are > based upon licences from SYSTEM V (AT&T) so SCO is at the root of the > UNIX tree. Most? Many UNIX seem to be from mixed origin. It is not clear to me how relevant other item is, but there is a *huge* amount of interesting information on the net related to this. > As for reporters and their articles I've read and will continue to read all I > can find. Rick, prior to the briefing where you well versed on the information available? I find it difficult to believe that you have read everything that you can find. Otherwise, I do not know how you could suggest: > MY UNDERSTANDING is that it is not SCO's intention to undermine the > Linux effort but rather to survive as a "for profit" company in a free > market. profit> some have suggested that there has been stock sell off of interesting quantity free market> cringe If you are genuinely interested, it appears there is a lot of material available that you might not have read thoroughly. slashdot is a good place to start as they provide links to pretty much all of the articles I was aware of before I got bored of the topic after many, many articles over many, many days, Lloyd P.S. This is unlikely be resolved any year soon. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 22:57:05 2003 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 22 Aug 2003 18:57:05 -0400 Subject: throuh which /dev port does "chat" cmd look? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Max Blanco writes: > Through which /dev port does "chat" cmd look? > > I can't find this info anywhere in the chat man page. > There exists no "usr/share/doc/chat" directory. I believe it reads from standard input and writes to standard output. If you're using it with PPP, pppd arranges to connect its standard input and standard output to the relevant tty. -- tim writer starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 22 23:38:42 2003 From: rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Chris Keelan) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:38:42 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030822201025.984.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822201025.984.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <20030822193842.30e608bc.rufmetal@eol.ca> On 22 Aug 2003 20:10:25 -0000 wrote: Can I get a copy please? rufmetal-ld0jrThsSZM at public.gmane.org ~ C -- Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability" to death--just a little bit! ~ Tragically Hip -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 02:07:20 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 22 Aug 2003 22:07:20 -0400 Subject: Code Monkey??? In-Reply-To: <1061591832.32231.139.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822213033.19725.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <3F468F78.3030906@codemonkeys.org> <1061591832.32231.139.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Lloyd D Budd writes: > On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 17:47, Emir wrote: > > I thought I was having a discussion in technical forum, never thought this was > > about winning or losing. Back on topic, "They have a valid case" is a > > statement of fact, if you wanted to state an opinion, you'd have said "They > > *seem* (or *appear*) to have a valid case" or "I'd say they have a valid > > case". See the difference? > > Emir, you *appear* to be having too much fun. It has been a while since > you graced TLUG with such foolishness. The scary thing is that he's making some sense this time :) He must have left himself logged in somewhere. -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 02:49:59 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 22 Aug 2003 22:49:59 -0400 Subject: A Canadian Response to SCO Message-ID: Hi everyone, This has been forwarded from the NewTLUG mailing list. Bill Traynor [the original poster] hasn't been able to send this to TLUG. Well, at least he and I haven't seen it show up on the list. So I'm trying. -------------- next part -------------- Subject: Topics Topics: [NTL] A Canadian Response to SCO -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: bill traynor Subject: [NTL] A Canadian Response to SCO Date: 20 Aug 2003 17:45:25 -0400 Size: 3329 URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 11:52:19 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 07:52:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Canadian Response to SCO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 22 Aug 2003, Matthew Rice wrote: > Hi everyone, > > This has been forwarded from the NewTLUG mailing list. Bill Traynor [the > original poster] hasn't been able to send this to TLUG. Well, at least he > and I haven't seen it show up on the list. > > So I'm trying. > Can I read somewhere about how this issue affects the little guy? I have a 1995 distro of redhat. Does this affect me? What about if I have a 2.2 kernel built in 2000? CLIC has been up in arms over the courtroom theatrics, but how about the substance? It hasn't been clear to me why I should care. (Sorry if that's a little blunt.) If I read this right, as long as you stick to 2.4 kernel code, who cares? Can you delete the offending 27 lines of code from the kernel and still make it crash proof and kickass...? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 12:05:10 2003 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 08:05:10 -0400 Subject: City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B7912F4-D562-11D7-9433-00039310151E@axxent.ca> On Friday, August 22, 2003, at 05:20 PM, Max Blanco wrote: > I didn't see your letter in today's online version of the G+M. Doesn't look like I made the cut. Conversely, there's an article in this morning's business section about heroic IT workers putting in long hours to cope with worms, viruses, and electrical blackouts. Aaaarrrrrghhh! (I was once the coworker of a Help Desk manager who was very proud of the enormous number of calls his staff handled each week. Ummm, what if you provided systems that didn't need that much support? Hmmmm?) > Care to share? Sure. ===== If it hurts, don't do it. ===== Each time I read an article about another worm or virus attacking computer systems (Blaster Worm hampering power repair, Aug. 20; Viruses eat away at firms' productivity, Aug. 21), I am dismayed that the authors portray the affected organizations as victims. Damage from malicious computer code is not at all like the result of some mysterious, chaotic force of nature; it is the predictable outcome of a business decision. The very design of some Microsoft products, emphasizing convenience over security, invites and enables attacks of technological vandalism. Since at least the Melissa virus (1999) and the Code Red worm (2001), we've known that exposing Microsoft mail and server software to the Internet increases the risk of damage and downtime compared to all the safer -- and often cheaper -- alternatives. It's the business equivalent of smoking cigarettes in a public place: it can kill you while it harms and annoys those around you. For companies to put themselves at unnecessary risk is a waste of their resources. For government organizations to do so is an abuse of the public trust. ===== ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 13:54:54 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 09:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: IMHO!!: The proper global response to SCO v. IBM. Message-ID: First Draft of An Open Letter to the Linux Community re: SCO v. IBM. -------------------------------------------------------------------- by Max Blanco The roots of this project we call "linux" are in Finland. It was tended by a theretofore unknown programmer that goes by the name of "Linus Torvalds". As the story has been told to me, Mr. Torvalds knew three things about how he wanted to subvert the UNICes of the day: 1) he wanted it to look and feel similar to "The Real Thing"TM; 2) he wanted it to be "free"; 3) he knew NOTHING at all about how the internals of the code worked. The third point was the key: as he knew nothing about how the code worked, he could set up what we now know as an Request-for-Comments (RFC) process. He knew the BEHAVIOUR of the system, a type of indirection named, in electrical engineering terms, after two electrical engineers: Mr. Thevenin and Mr. Norton. You can find out more about these two gentlemen, to whom are devoted the majority of second-year EE courses at and . Devices of this type are also known as "black boxes". Mr. Torvalds *isolated himself* (not too difficult in wintertime Finland, I should think!) and came up with a novel implementation, or flavour, of UNIX. An example may be in order at this point to concretize your thoughts. I will use the example of the "ls" command. At every point in an operating system's (OS's) life to date, a human being (man) must interface with the computer to query the contents of the filesystem with which he interfaces. The input the man gives to the computer is known as "ls" (and appropriate command line switches; see "man ls" for these). The output by the OS to the screen is organized in columnar, alphabetized fashion. A typical example might look like this: [root at gloucester: ~/perlsnippets] % <--rest state [root at gloucester: ~/perlsnippets] % ls <--input fix.nov.pl fixofman.pl <--output fixbfaut.pl takemailaddresses.pl <--output [root at gloucester: ~/perlsnippets] % <--rest state Mr. Torvalds did NOT know how one of the original development teams of UNIX accomplished this feat, but he did know the iputs and outputs of the "ls" system. By replicating the entire UNIX tree, he eventually had a working flavour of UNIX. This OS was baptized "linux" when it was released in the early 1990s. Fast forward to 2003. International Bussiness Machines (IBM), the progenitor of the system on which linux was developed and one of the largest global corporations, belatedly has noticed this free software effort and is preying on its success. The suits at IBM know a good thing when they see it: they need to reduce costs, and a free OS is hard to resist. The fact that many of IBM's corporate clients have noticed this linux OS is another reason to hop on the bandwagon. That the suits at IBM have not been the only ones to notice linux is witnessed by the following excerpt: " In March of this year, The SCO Group (formerly Caldera International) announced that they intend to seek damages from IBM, claiming that IBM had released code included in the Linux kernel that was actually their Intellectual Property. "(CLIC press release, August 23, 2003) The Canadian Linux Interests Coalition (CLIC) has been formed as of August 22, 2003 "to refute SCO's claims against Linux and Linux Users everywhere". Corporations exist to funnel lucre to their shareholders while maintaining a cushy job for their own corporate managers. Corporations--fictive bodies all--must employ lawyers if they are to exist. Lawsuits are instigated to achieve the aims of corporations; this is one possible means for lawyers to justify their existence. Corporations can be seen to exist as life support systems for the benefit of certain lawyers. (Corporations cannot "exist" in a literal--by this I mean physically real--sense.) This can be contrasted with inter-personal (i.e. man-to-man) relationships, in which the overriding object is to avoid courts of law. The development of "linux" was free of lawsuits until recently. The development of "linux" was free of corporations until recently. The development of "linux" had been a cottage industry, in which physically real individuals had contributed code to the "linux" community, since its inception. No longer is this the case. With the permission granted by natural persons to allow artificial or fictive bodies to contribute to the "linux" community, a snake was introduced to their eden. The inception of lawsuits over linux has its roots intermixed inextricably with the onset of the onslaught of corporations. Corporations "exist" to shield human beings from liability. The lawsuit which CLIC was formed to address is a battle between two corporations. I should be remiss if I failed to bring this to your notice. The lawsuit apparently involves 27 lines of code, which the SCO Group maintains IBM "stole" *and contributed to* the linux code base. No natural person in full possession of his senses would have ever performed such a feat of happy-enstance. IMHO, this whole mess can be best avoided if the linux project is returned to its roots by its contributors: an RFC process documenting the prescribed inputs and desired outputs should be given to a programmer with no prior knowledge of the 27 lines of contested code; His creation will be free of legal encumbrance. Let the legal fictions battle in court. I have no interest in seeing the linux code base polluted by the actions of fictive legal bodies. The whole linux community should exclude forevermore contributions by fictive legal bodies, through democratic vote if need be. The list of kernel contributors is known. IBM, along with its employees, would have one voice. The same distribution of voices would prevail for other fictive legal bodies. Perhaps the human, natural, person will, upon reading this document, agree with me to save this linux project from embroilment with legal fictions. The ideal result would be to have natural pesons who contribute to the development of the linux code base proscribe contributions from artificial persons. The institution of a Thevenin-Norton-Torvalds RFC process to solve this fictive impasse may be one of the avenues possible to return this idyll to its natural state: a cottage industry in which natural persons contribute to the weal of the whole community. --30-- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 14:15:07 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 10:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: City of Toronto using Linux (on the desktop, yet!) In-Reply-To: <0B7912F4-D562-11D7-9433-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <0B7912F4-D562-11D7-9433-00039310151E@axxent.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Phillip Mills wrote: > ===== If it hurts, don't do it. ===== > > Each time I read an article about another worm or virus attacking > computer systems (Blaster Worm hampering power repair, Aug. 20; Viruses > eat away at firms' productivity, Aug. 21), I am dismayed that the > authors portray the affected organizations as victims. Damage from > malicious computer code is not at all like the result of some > mysterious, chaotic force of nature; it is the predictable outcome of a > business decision. > The very design of some Microsoft products, emphasizing convenience > over security, invites and enables attacks of technological vandalism. > Since at least the Melissa virus (1999) and the Code Red worm (2001), > we've known that exposing Microsoft mail and server software to the > Internet increases the risk of damage and downtime compared to all the > safer -- and often cheaper -- alternatives. It's the business > equivalent of smoking cigarettes in a public place: it can kill you > while it harms and annoys those around you. > For companies to put themselves at unnecessary risk is a waste of > their resources. For government organizations to do so is an abuse of > the public trust. > > ===== "It's the equivalent of smoking cigarettes in a place of business: this boorish behaviour can kill you while it harms and annoys your co-workers." Do you think the community of TLUG would consider sending this letter to the Globe and Mail, signed onto it as individuals: "Phillip Mills and 100 other members of Toronto Linux Users Group" ??? I'd add my voice if someone can cobble the requisite technology together... (does this listserv get read on Saturday? If Monday ed is not practical, Wed ed would be.) We should be able to do this with a minimum number of a dozen signatories, IMHO. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 14:46:39 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:46:39 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: chat Message-ID: chat talk to its stdin and stdout but it will not work stand-alone, as in: chat "" ATZ OK /dev/modem because the line disipline and buffering need to be set. pppd does this before calling chat. calling chat as above will fail on any machine, in despite of working modem etc. The call will hang (can be interrupted with ^C). bye, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 14:39:23 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:39:23 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <1061592590.32231.153.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822215935.26010.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <1061592590.32231.153.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > P.S. This is unlikely be resolved any year soon. Well one thing is resolved: anyone running kernels prior to 2.4 is unaffected. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 15:18:06 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: 23 Aug 2003 15:18:06 -0000 Subject: A Canadian Response to SCO Message-ID: <20030823151806.27347.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> The response I received at the briefing to that question was that only kernels 2.4-2.6 were affected. Prior versions were not under dispute. RickT On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 07:52:19 -0400 (EDT), Max Blanco wrote : > On 22 Aug 2003, Matthew Rice wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > This has been forwarded from the NewTLUG mailing list. Bill Traynor [the > > original poster] hasn't been able to send this to TLUG. Well, at least he > > and I haven't seen it show up on the list. > > > > So I'm trying. > > > > Can I read somewhere about how this issue affects the little guy? > I have a 1995 distro of redhat. Does this affect me? > What about if I have a 2.2 kernel built in 2000? > > CLIC has been up in arms over the courtroom theatrics, but how about > the substance? It hasn't been clear to me why I should care. > (Sorry if that's a little blunt.) > > If I read this right, as long as you stick to 2.4 kernel code, who cares? > > Can you delete the offending 27 lines of code from the kernel and still > make it crash proof and kickass...? > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 15:54:22 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: 23 Aug 2003 15:54:22 -0000 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: <20030823155422.31987.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> At the briefing SCO claimed copyright and trademark ownership of the UNIX name. As for ties to Microsoft going back many years SCO referred to these claims as laughable and I would be skeptical of SCO's involvement and any sort of stock sell off given the fallout from Enron, Tyco, Martha etc. Unix coming from mixed origins (Berkeley)is based on confidential agreements and otherwise with AT&T to rewrite code. While I may not be 100% right on with every tiny tid-bit since I have better things to do than filter through every line of every article ever written on the subject I'm confident in the accuracy of the bulk of what I'm saying since I've had the opportunity to get answers directly from SCO's CEO and other CEO's and officers who seem to know what they are talking about. I'm just a low level partner like many others I've met at TLUG meetings. If you are as informed as you think you are we could have used you in Las Vegas this week. Why were'nt you there? The trip cost peanuts compared to the long term value it offered. What on earth is wrong with a free market? Our whole economy is based on a free market. The world is moving toward globalization. The GPL is a welcome addition to our world but we still need to maintain other options. IMHO On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:49:51 -0400, Lloyd D Budd wrote : > On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 17:59, Rick Tomaschuk may have wrote: > > > > My understanding is that SCO owns copyrights and trademarks for > > UNIX SYSTEM V. > Err...but it is debatable whether they own the trademark to UNIX. IBM > had a special contractually arrangement with AT&T. The other UNIX(s) > that IBM bought have not had their agreements released. > > > Most other (nearly all) UNIXes are > > based upon licences from SYSTEM V (AT&T) so SCO is at the root of the > > UNIX tree. > Most? Many UNIX seem to be from mixed origin. > > It is not clear to me how relevant other item is, but there is a *huge* > amount of interesting information on the net related to this. > > > > As for reporters and their articles I've read and will continue to read all I > > can find. > Rick, prior to the briefing where you well versed on the information > available? > > I find it difficult to believe that you have read everything that you > can find. Otherwise, I do not know how you could suggest: > > MY UNDERSTANDING is that it is not SCO's intention to undermine the > > Linux effort but rather to survive as a "for profit" company in a free > > market. > > profit> some have suggested that there has been stock sell off of > interesting quantity > > free market> cringe > > > If you are genuinely interested, it appears there is a lot of material > available that you might not have read thoroughly. slashdot is a good > place to start as they provide links to pretty much all of the articles > I was aware of before I got bored of the topic after many, many articles > over many, many days, > Lloyd > > > P.S. This is unlikely be resolved any year soon. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 16:08:27 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 19:08:27 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: ss.org email trouble Message-ID: It turns out that the mail problem is not at ss.org afaik but one hop before it, at a place called nte.com Therefore point your mta transport map to ss.org directly [206.108.5.1] and your mail will arrive. I just did this with full logging and it works fine. mail.ets.com is some sort of mx or hop on the way to ss.org from ??? I keep getting reminders that it still tries to send my mail, with ss.org timing out every time on the transfer. hope this helps, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 16:45:37 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 19:45:37 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030823155422.31987.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030823155422.31987.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > peanuts compared to the long term value it offered. What on earth is > wrong with a free market? Our whole economy is based on a free market. This is not about free market, this is about some firm or other dragging down the good name of Linux and attacking the GPL in a FUD war that precedes a multi-billion multi-year lawsuit in a country other than the one where you (I understand) and I (certainly) live, for months on end (**), where such things are a national passtime apparently. The FIRST thing that should worry a Linux user/developer is whether the GPL was violated by someone. Not by whom. Then the second worry would be to undo the damage asap, first by applying the GPL provisions for violations of the GPL license, since THIS is the license that was violated, not some IP ownership or other, about which as a Linux user/developer you should care only as a second thought. That means immediate summons from the GPL and FSF (as appropriate) copyright and license rights owners (such as Linus Torvalds, who owns the copyright on the majority of the kernel code) to the involved or suspected parties to cease distribution and use of Linux and of the name Linux (Linux is also a trademark of Linux Torvalds) until the matter is cleared, and in parallel an effort to find and remove the code that OFFENDS THE GPL (I do NOT care who else it offends !) from the Linux codebase, and replace it as necessary. THIS is what Linux users and developers need. THEN, when on the side, we can talk about whose made a mistake and who went along with it, and have all the fud you want, about those firms who are involved in this. *NOT* about GPL and Linux, which is a *victim* of misuse by someone of someone else's IP, and not *guilty* of it. Come to think of it, the GPL copyright holders could sue both big firms for license violation and slander. > The world is moving toward globalization. The GPL is a welcome > addition to our world but we still need to maintain other options. IMHO The GPL is a welcome addition to what exactly ? It has been here for nearly 10 years I think. Other options ? As many as you want. But without the Linux codebase and the GPL, thank you, we will not have them mixed into the continuous-lawsuit-thing that takes part in a certain country. {\footnote (**) New Linux versions come out about every 6 months. If the lawsuit will work as such lawsuits worked until now, it could bog down Linux development for 6 versions, easily. I do *NOT* want that, badly enough, to start contributing to a new codebase derived from 2.2, and thus unaffected by the lawsuit, starting tomorrow. And I know I am not alone on this. Know thy history, at least so you can avoid past mistakes. 'Waiting it out' is not a good idea in this case. And I don't care if I have to call it 'Notlin' or something like that. } Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 16:53:31 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 12:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A Canadian Response to SCO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Max Blanco wrote: > Can I read somewhere about how this issue affects the little guy? > I have a 1995 distro of redhat. Does this affect me? > What about if I have a 2.2 kernel built in 2000? Ok, I'm not a lawyer but I do have some idea about how the legal system works. Right now SCO is telling Linux users to get a licencing fee. Right now you are under no legal obligation to do this. SCO have made a number of claims, none of which have been substantiated in court. If any of these claims are ever substantiated in court (something many of us feel is unlikely) then you may need to take notice. Until then SCOs claims are nothing but words. > If I read this right, as long as you stick to 2.4 kernel code, who cares? SCO are going after 2.4. > Can you delete the offending 27 lines of code from the kernel and still > make it crash proof and kickass...? The lines mentioned in the the recent SCO seminars for their resellers have been shown to be absolutely positively available under the BSD licence. This means the code is freely redistributable. The BSD licence is far freer than the GPL. It took the OpenSource community about 5 hours to determine the code SCO put up on the slides at the seminars was available under the BSD licence. The fact that the SCO lawyers apparently couldn't figure out the code in question was available under the BSD licence does not bode well for their abilities in my eyes, unless of course it was the intention of the lawyers and those preparing the seminars to deliberately mislead those present in the audience. So SCO are still yet to provide any proof of their position, despite their claims that they have now done so. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 16:59:09 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 12:59:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ss.org email trouble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote: > It turns out that the mail problem is not at ss.org afaik but one hop > before it, at a place called nte.com Hi Peter. I'm seeing something very different to you. > Therefore point your mta transport map to ss.org directly [206.108.5.1] > and your mail will arrive. I just did this with full logging and it works > fine. For me at least it'll just go straight to 206.108.5.1 (in a messaging sense, not a packet sense of course): zen:~$ host -t mx ss.org ss.org MX 1 lethe.ss.org zen:~$ host lethe.ss.org lethe.ss.org A 206.108.5.1 > mail.ets.com is some sort of mx or hop on the way to ss.org from ??? I > keep getting reminders that it still tries to send my mail, with ss.org > timing out every time on the transfer. Both mail.ets.com & mail.nte.com do not resolve for me: zen:~$ host mail.ets.com mail.ets.com does not exist, try again zen:~$ host mail.nte.com mail.nte.com does not exist, try again The domains do exist which is not surprising given the are both 3 letters :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 18:14:58 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030822201025.984.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822201025.984.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <24849.216.138.194.32.1061662498.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > I was at SCO Forum this week and viewed some of the disputed code and > SCO's explanations both without and with NDA. They have a valid case. .. so you are stating that the court has accepted their prima facie case? (A valid case is not necessarily a winning one, only one that should be heard. Until a court of valid jurisdiction rules otherwise, SCO's case does appear to be valid insofar as valid means that it should be heard.) Winning it is a completely different matter... > Linux kernel 2.4 to 2.6 contains AIX code which allows scalability > beyond that which would have been available in a "regular development > timeframe". Anyone interested in a copy of the non-nda PPT let me know > and I'll email you a copy. I've tried several postings to the list > server but it does'nt seem to be working. This is a great ploy on SCO's behalf, trying the case in the court of public opinion with a jury that is uninstructed on interpreting the applied laws by a judge from a qualified bench. One of the tenets of law is the "Appearance of Justice"... not that justice can be proven to be done, but that it appears to have been done. Every case has at least one loser. That said, the impact of the case so far is that it is bringing a whole bunch of previously unframed questions about the opensource model that haven't really been addressed by opensource advocacy hype. How strong is the GPL and just how flexible is the code? SCO still has their work cut out for them to get anywhere noteworthy within the legal system with this case. Filing a case <> winning a case. IMHO this case in more noteworthy in how it will set precedence in law about the interpretation and application of the copyright legislation to the specific points of the case rather than the outcome, and how the application of the final judgement will affect future code revisions. I suspect that the basis of the core kernel code is strong enough to survive an unfavorable ruling. The question in my mind is, is the opensource community strong enough to survive the courtcase, winning or losing notwithstanding? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 18:25:21 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 21:25:21 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: ss.org email trouble In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Robert Brockway wrote: > zen:~$ host mail.ets.com > mail.ets.com does not exist, try again Try mail.ets.net The newest fad is to have all the suffixes bought up and use only one of them. Often forgetting to put a redirect in the unused ones (eg ets.com ->ets.net). > zen:~$ host mail.nte.com > mail.nte.com does not exist, try again nte is a mistake by me. Such a domain is not in volved in this. Please ignore the nte name. Peter PS: Some headers follow (imho this needs sorting out between the postmasters at ss.org and ets.net): Received: from smtp1.actcom.net.il by actcom.co.il with ESMTP (8.11.6/actcom-0.2) id h7N0RTR11107 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:27:31 +0300 (EET DST) (rfc931-sender: mail.actcom.co.il [192.114.47.13]) Received: from lisa.ets.net (lisa.ets.net [205.207.146.21]) by smtp1.actcom.net.il (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h7N0XNs6008874 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:33:24 +0300 Received: by lisa.ets.net (Postfix) id 96EB46B313; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:27:27 -0400 (EDT) This is the Postfix program at host lisa.ets.net. #################################################################### # THIS IS A WARNING ONLY. YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. # #################################################################### Your message could not be delivered for 4.0 hours. It will be retried until it is 5.0 days old. For further assistance, please send mail to The Postfix program : host lethe.ss.org[206.108.5.1] said: 421 Error: timeout exceeded Will-Retry-Until: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:18:47 -0400 (EDT) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 18:55:58 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 21:55:58 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <24849.216.138.194.32.1061662498.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822201025.984.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <24849.216.138.194.32.1061662498.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Keith Mastin wrote: > I suspect that the basis of the core kernel code is strong enough to > survive an unfavorable ruling. The question in my mind is, is the > opensource community strong enough to survive the courtcase, winning or > losing notwithstanding? I think that it must be made CLEAR that the people being sued are not the GPL, not Linux, but the firm(s) who have introduced the supposed IP into the codebase, while breaking the GPL. Imho this scandal only tests whether the GPL will be enforced by the copyright and trademark owners of the GPL and of the Linux name against whoever put someone's IP into the codebase (if they put it there). The way I see it, the moment SCO officially puts down the offending code as evidence, and the code is found to be taken from someone (possibly from them) as opposed from the public domain (or BSD code), the people who wrote the code will have to be found, and then someone from FSF/GPL will have to serve them a GPL license violation writ immediately. *This* would test the GPL imho. And failure to do this would be a big mistake, as it would be a kind of abandoning of the license and its object (by not defending it). But, ianal. Meanwhile the FSF/GPL lawyers should have two such writs in a drawer, one for each of the involved firms, and be ready to pull the right one out and serve it immediately when needed. There is no question about whether OS will survive the test because the test is not about OS at all. It is about whether someone can get away with slander and FUD against the GPL and Linux, over, say 0.0001% of its code, and bring the house down over this. However, the intention of these people to drag the open source community through this lawsuit and associated fears is obvious, as is their intention to benefit from this precedent they are creating in the future. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 18:58:17 2003 From: verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 18:58:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: TlUG badmails: ss.org wont resolve, sez mail.interlog.com Message-ID: I download mails from mail.interlog.com with fetechmail under POP3, over PPP dialup. The mail.interlog.com server is now saying that ss.org will not resolve, and is therefore terminating all my fetchmail sessions. :-( :-( Tom = Tom Karmo http://www. metascientia.com 416-971-6955 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 19:17:25 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 22:17:25 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: First Linux phone out ;-) Message-ID: http://www.gizmodo.com/ Scroll down to 'First Linux phone out'. I wonder what kernel it runs. Ho hum. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 19:24:14 2003 From: verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 19:24:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: sorry: not ss.org, but OTHER problem (more general) Message-ID: Very sorry to have raised a false alarm a few minutes ago. I thought a misonfiguration somewhere in the TLUG mail-transmissions chain (ss.org? other server?) was causing my fetchmail, pointed to mail.interlog.com under POP3, to return "domain does not resolve" errors. In fact my problem is more general, and has nothing to do with ss.org as such. Even **OTHER** domains are not getting resolved. How this can be I con't know! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 20:51:06 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 23:51:06 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: register article well worth passing on Message-ID: An(other) article on M$ security in desktop products well worth passing on to would-be linux converts: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/32449.html Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 21:45:57 2003 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:45:57 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200308231745.58032.jmyshrall@golden.net> On August 22, 2003 05:14 pm, E K wrote: Top post WTF ? >
>

"The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential > election
~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at > best a lottery,
~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human > vices."           &n >bsp; -- Andrew Orlowski


By the virtue this sco has a valid > case.

>

EK

>
>From: Emir >
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: SCO has valid case >
>Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:44:48 -0400 >
> >
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >
>Hash: SHA1 >
> >
>On 22/08/2003 16:10, rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org wrote: >
> >
>| I was at SCO Forum this week and viewed some of the > disputed code
>and >
>| SCO's explanations both without and with NDA. They have a > valid
>case. >
>| Linux kernel 2.4 to 2.6 contains AIX code which allows > scalability
>| beyond that which would have been available in > a "regular
>development >
>| timeframe". Anyone interested in a copy of the non-nda PPT > let me
>know >
>| and I'll email you a copy. I've tried several postings to > the list
>| server but it does'nt seem to be working. >
> >
>Couple of points here, Rick: >
> >
>1. Unless you're a judge in a US Court of Law with > jurisdiction over
>this >
>case, I'd strongly recommend you *never* state it as a fact > that SCO
>does or >
>does not have a valid case. Signing SCO's NDA and sitting > through
>their >
>PowerPoint presentation doesn't make you qualified to make > such
>judgments, at >
>least not in a public forum such as this one. Nobody's gonna > stop
>you, but it >
>can't be considered anything but FUD and thus your > credibility takes
>the >
>one-way trip down the sewers of our fine City. >
> >
>2. Assuming it's the same presentation everyone else saw, > it's
>already been >
>taken apart by many UNIX experts, and Bruce Perens himself > wrote an
>analysis >
>of the presentation > (http://www.perens.com/SCO/SCOSlideShow.html).
> >
>3. Let's talk logic for a moment here: IBM is at risk to > lose $3bn,
>maybe >
>more, from a company they can buy for $25M. Do you honestly > think
>IBM's army >
>of IP lawyers (and IBM is rumoured to have the largest > collection of
>those in >
>history of human kind) overlooked that and it took *you* to > figure
>the case is >
>in SCO's favour? >
> >
>At the end, I'm gonna tell you something you should've been > told a
>long time >
>ago: not everything you see on a PowerPoint slide is > necessarily
>true. >
> >
> >
>- -- >
>Emir. >
> >
>"The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 > Presidential
>election >
>~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at > best a
>lottery, >
>~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew >
>Orlowski >
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >
>Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32) >
>Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - > http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> >
>iD8DBQE/RoDAuSy542G+Z7QRAkKMAKCLsA9tfnF+oMR00aOBQEB8IQf4SACf >WDfS
>qD03b4L0/3ootp3N7J5xsEA= >
>=5Dda >
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >
> >
>-- >
>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 > columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

STOP > MORE SPAM with the new MSN > 8 and get 2 months FREE* -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 21:52:13 2003 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:52:13 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030822211647.16721.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822211647.16721.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <200308231752.13477.jmyshrall@golden.net> On August 22, 2003 05:16 pm, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > You are attempting to remove my voice even though I have the same > right to speak as you do. I think I have valid information to post. > What is your last name....Emir? I think I hear your mom calling... > RickT > Emir is stating what most people in the open source community *know*. The said code is BSD and the other released by Caldera. I'm not a hacker however I've been following this daily. Check Torvald's and Raymond's response to the smoking gun. PO 'd at SCO John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 22:05:49 2003 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 18:05:49 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <200308231752.13477.jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822211647.16721.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <200308231752.13477.jmyshrall@golden.net> Message-ID: <200308231805.49990.jmyshrall@golden.net> On August 23, 2003 05:52 pm, John Myshrall wrote: > On August 22, 2003 05:16 pm, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > You are attempting to remove my voice even though I have the same > > right to speak as you do. I think I have valid information to post. > > What is your last name....Emir? I think I hear your mom calling... > > RickT > > Emir is stating what most people in the open source community *know*. The > said code is BSD and the other released by Caldera. I'm not a hacker > however I've been following this daily. Check Torvald's and Raymond's > response to the smoking gun. > > PO 'd at SCO John > oops forgot the links. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1227128,00.asp http://www.perens.com/SCO/SCOSlideShow.html http://www.opensource.org/sco-vs-ibm.html l8r J -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 22:53:03 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 18:53:03 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030823155422.31987.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030823155422.31987.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <1061679182.7180.55.camel@localhost> Hello, What likely triggered my response was what seems as an obnoxious, blind statement: > MY UNDERSTANDING is that it is not SCO's intention to undermine the > Linux effort On Sat, 2003-08-23 at 11:54, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > At the briefing SCO claimed copyright and trademark ownership of the > UNIX name. I am surprised that you have not read that since SCO has made their claims, their claim of having the UNIX trademark is disputed, and SCO likely will need to legally establish that they do own that trademark. I had guessed that you knew this when your previous mailing read " SCO owns copyrights and trademarks for UNIX SYSTEM V." > Unix coming from mixed origins (Berkeley)is > based on confidential agreements and otherwise with AT&T to rewrite code. I believe you used the word "most". Many were in development long before SYSTEM V, but adopted SYSTEM V "feel". Back then it was popular to establish one's UNIX version as a SYSTEM V UNIX (or BSD UNIX). Regardless, how is such information relevant? > While I may not be 100% right on with every tiny tid-bit since I have > better things to do than filter through every line of every article > ever written on the subject Hmm... I am surprised that in your reading you have not learned that your "hard" statements are controversial, and discussion might be improved by providing context for such statements. > I'm confident in the accuracy of the bulk > of what I'm saying since I've had the opportunity to get answers > directly from SCO's CEO and other CEO's and officers who seem to know > what they are talking about. I guess that presents it better, as your previous posting appears biased. > If you are as informed as you think you are we could have > used you in Las Vegas this week. Why were'nt you there? I definitely do not consider myself informed, only it seems that you are drinking from one pool ;-) > The trip cost peanuts compared to the long term value it offered. I am interested to know what you see as the long term value? > What on earth is > wrong with a free market? My comment was more in response to your "packaging" and associating of the ideas. > Our whole economy is based on a free market. I still need to do more traveling of the world to decide my own personal opinion there...but here we greatly digress. > The world is moving toward globalization. The GPL is a welcome > addition to our world but we still need to maintain other options. IMHO Rick, I continue to miss the context and relationship of your statements. I doubt it is your intention, but your mixture of generally agreed assertions with very controversial ones is interesting. I commend you if your intention is to seek out moral truth. Cheers, Lloyd > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:49:51 -0400, Lloyd D Budd > wrote : > > > On Fri, 2003-08-22 at 17:59, Rick Tomaschuk may have wrote: > > > > > > > My understanding is that SCO owns copyrights and trademarks for > > > UNIX SYSTEM V. > > Err...but it is debatable whether they own the trademark to UNIX. IBM > > had a special contractually arrangement with AT&T. The other UNIX(s) > > that IBM bought have not had their agreements released. > > > > > Most other (nearly all) UNIXes are > > > based upon licences from SYSTEM V (AT&T) so SCO is at the root of the > > > UNIX tree. > > Most? Many UNIX seem to be from mixed origin. > > > > It is not clear to me how relevant other item is, but there is a *huge* > > amount of interesting information on the net related to this. > > > > > > > As for reporters and their articles I've read and will continue to > read all I > > > can find. > > Rick, prior to the briefing where you well versed on the information > > available? > > > > I find it difficult to believe that you have read everything that you > > can find. Otherwise, I do not know how you could suggest: > > > MY UNDERSTANDING is that it is not SCO's intention to undermine the > > > Linux effort but rather to survive as a "for profit" company in a free > > > market. > > > > profit> some have suggested that there has been stock sell off of > > interesting quantity > > > > free market> cringe > > > > > > If you are genuinely interested, it appears there is a lot of material > > available that you might not have read thoroughly. slashdot is a good > > place to start as they provide links to pretty much all of the articles > > I was aware of before I got bored of the topic after many, many articles > > over many, many days, > > Lloyd > > > > > > P.S. This is unlikely be resolved any year soon. > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Lloyd D Budd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 01:55:58 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: 24 Aug 2003 01:55:58 -0000 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> I did not get the impression SCO was trying to drag down the Linux name especially as a "past time" but rather they are moving to protect their IP (Intellectual Property) in the very same manner the music industry has been doing. (ie.Napster) They seem adamant about their current holdings (UNIX) and are trying to enforce their legal rights. SCO's assertion is that IBM (as a company, not rogue employees) did knowingly introduce AIX code to Linux licensed from the SCO/Novell/AT&T agreement. SCOX (Nasdaq $13.55) is a tiny company approx. 350 employees & current market cap 100M++ now that their stock price has increased from below one dollar a year ago. They were almost delisted. SCO has an impressive team of professionals working on all aspects of this case. SCO is not a group of "stupid idiots" as many seem to think they are. I'm amazed no one on the list server with advanced programming skills took the time to go to Vegas to try to get to the bottom of things or at the very least to hear SCO's side and grill them on the spot. They were all there answering any and all questions. At least no one else on the list server has spoken out yet about their trip to SCOForum yet. Hell I'm almost sorry I said anything now. I UNDERSTAND substantial code exists above and beyond the powerpoint presentation however SCO is not prepared to release it publicly...yet. Don't dump on me. I support the Linux effort with great enthusiasm since it began but need to have options for different customers. I'm as adversely affected by all this the same as others in the industry. I don't need more FUD in my life. I was working with 3.5, 3.51, NT when it first arrived. I sure did'nt need that CRAP in my life especially when Novell had (what I considered) to be rock solid technology at the time. I welcome all comments. Nothing like a great brainstorming session to liven things up. Rick Tomaschuk rickt-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Novell Resource: http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 19:45:37 +0300 (IDDT), "Peter L. Peres" wrote : > > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > peanuts compared to the long term value it offered. What on earth is >wrong with a free market? Our whole economy is based on a free market. > > This is not about free market, this is about some firm or other >dragging down the good name of Linux and attacking the GPL in a FUD >war that precedes a multi-billion multi-year lawsuit in a country >other than the one where you (I understand) and I (certainly) live, >for months on end (**), where such things are a national passtime >apparently. > > The FIRST thing that should worry a Linux user/developer is whether the > GPL was violated by someone. Not by whom. Then the second worry would be > to undo the damage asap, first by applying the GPL provisions for > violations of the GPL license, since THIS is the license that was > violated, not some IP ownership or other, about which as a Linux > user/developer you should care only as a second thought. That means > immediate summons from the GPL and FSF (as appropriate) copyright and > license rights owners (such as Linus Torvalds, who owns the copyright on > the majority of the kernel code) to the involved or suspected parties to > cease distribution and use of Linux and of the name Linux (Linux is also a > trademark of Linux Torvalds) until the matter is cleared, and in parallel > an effort to find and remove the code that OFFENDS THE GPL (I do NOT care > who else it offends !) from the Linux codebase, and replace it as > necessary. THIS is what Linux users and developers need. > > THEN, when on the side, we can talk about whose made a mistake and who > went along with it, and have all the fud you want, about those firms who > are involved in this. *NOT* about GPL and Linux, which is a *victim* of > misuse by someone of someone else's IP, and not *guilty* of it. Come to > think of it, the GPL copyright holders could sue both big firms for > license violation and slander. > > > The world is moving toward globalization. The GPL is a welcome > > addition to our world but we still need to maintain other options. IMHO > > The GPL is a welcome addition to what exactly ? It has been here for > nearly 10 years I think. Other options ? As many as you want. But without > the Linux codebase and the GPL, thank you, we will not have them mixed > into the continuous-lawsuit-thing that takes part in a certain country. > > {\footnote (**) New Linux versions come out about every 6 months. If the > lawsuit will work as such lawsuits worked until now, it could bog down > Linux development for 6 versions, easily. I do *NOT* want that, badly > enough, to start contributing to a new codebase derived from 2.2, and thus > unaffected by the lawsuit, starting tomorrow. And I know I am not alone on > this. Know thy history, at least so you can avoid past mistakes. 'Waiting > it out' is not a good idea in this case. And I don't care if I have to > call it 'Notlin' or something like that. } > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 02:51:16 2003 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 22:51:16 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E283190C8@lynchmail.lynch.msft> It's my opinion that SCO is hoping for a settlement and never wants to go to court. Lots of people sue with the hope of getting paid off because it is cheaper for the defendant to handout the money then to defend itself. I think this has from the very beginning been a bluff from a very desperate company. The shenanigan with SCO issuing stocks and then SCO executives cashing in smells really bad. The issuing of licenses appears to nothing more than FUD. SCO has alienated just about everyone imaginable, and the SCO execs are looking for early retirement. Of course this is just my opinion :) Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: Rick Tomaschuk [mailto:rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org] Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 9:56 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org I did not get the impression SCO was trying to drag down the Linux name especially as a "past time" but rather they are moving to protect their IP (Intellectual Property) in the very same manner the music industry has been doing. (ie.Napster) They seem adamant about their current holdings (UNIX) and are trying to enforce their legal rights. SCO's assertion is that IBM (as a company, not rogue employees) did knowingly introduce AIX code to Linux licensed from the SCO/Novell/AT&T agreement. SCOX (Nasdaq $13.55) is a tiny company approx. 350 employees & current market cap 100M++ now that their stock price has increased from below one dollar a year ago. They were almost delisted. SCO has an impressive team of professionals working on all aspects of this case. SCO is not a group of "stupid idiots" as many seem to think they are. I'm amazed no one on the list server with advanced programming skills took the time to go to Vegas to try to get to the bottom of things or at the very least to hear SCO's side and grill them on the spot. They were all there answering any and all questions. At least no one else on the list server has spoken out yet about their trip to SCOForum yet. Hell I'm almost sorry I said anything now. I UNDERSTAND substantial code exists above and beyond the powerpoint presentation however SCO is not prepared to release it publicly...yet. Don't dump on me. I support the Linux effort with great enthusiasm since it began but need to have options for different customers. I'm as adversely affected by all this the same as others in the industry. I don't need more FUD in my life. I was working with 3.5, 3.51, NT when it first arrived. I sure did'nt need that CRAP in my life especially when Novell had (what I considered) to be rock solid technology at the time. I welcome all comments. Nothing like a great brainstorming session to liven things up. Rick Tomaschuk rickt-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Novell Resource: http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 19:45:37 +0300 (IDDT), "Peter L. Peres" wrote : > > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > peanuts compared to the long term value it offered. What on earth is >wrong with a free market? Our whole economy is based on a free market. > > This is not about free market, this is about some firm or other >dragging down the good name of Linux and attacking the GPL in a FUD >war that precedes a multi-billion multi-year lawsuit in a country >other than the one where you (I understand) and I (certainly) live, >for months on end (**), where such things are a national passtime >apparently. > > The FIRST thing that should worry a Linux user/developer is whether the > GPL was violated by someone. Not by whom. Then the second worry would be > to undo the damage asap, first by applying the GPL provisions for > violations of the GPL license, since THIS is the license that was > violated, not some IP ownership or other, about which as a Linux > user/developer you should care only as a second thought. That means > immediate summons from the GPL and FSF (as appropriate) copyright and > license rights owners (such as Linus Torvalds, who owns the copyright on > the majority of the kernel code) to the involved or suspected parties to > cease distribution and use of Linux and of the name Linux (Linux is also a > trademark of Linux Torvalds) until the matter is cleared, and in parallel > an effort to find and remove the code that OFFENDS THE GPL (I do NOT care > who else it offends !) from the Linux codebase, and replace it as > necessary. THIS is what Linux users and developers need. > > THEN, when on the side, we can talk about whose made a mistake and who > went along with it, and have all the fud you want, about those firms who > are involved in this. *NOT* about GPL and Linux, which is a *victim* of > misuse by someone of someone else's IP, and not *guilty* of it. Come to > think of it, the GPL copyright holders could sue both big firms for > license violation and slander. > > > The world is moving toward globalization. The GPL is a welcome > > addition to our world but we still need to maintain other options. IMHO > > The GPL is a welcome addition to what exactly ? It has been here for > nearly 10 years I think. Other options ? As many as you want. But without > the Linux codebase and the GPL, thank you, we will not have them mixed > into the continuous-lawsuit-thing that takes part in a certain country. > > {\footnote (**) New Linux versions come out about every 6 months. If the > lawsuit will work as such lawsuits worked until now, it could bog down > Linux development for 6 versions, easily. I do *NOT* want that, badly > enough, to start contributing to a new codebase derived from 2.2, and thus > unaffected by the lawsuit, starting tomorrow. And I know I am not alone on > this. Know thy history, at least so you can avoid past mistakes. 'Waiting > it out' is not a good idea in this case. And I don't care if I have to > call it 'Notlin' or something like that. } > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 02:55:23 2003 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 22:55:23 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030823155422.31987.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030823155422.31987.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <3F48291B.5020002@truxtar.com> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > What on earth is >wrong with a free market? Our whole economy is based on a free market. >The world is moving toward globalization. The GPL is a welcome >addition to our world but we still need to maintain other options. IMHO > > > There is nothing wrong with the free market. However, using the system of laws which is designed to restrict (opposite of free) rights to do business is not what I consider free market economy. Rather than spending their energy on developing a better product to compete with linux, or capitalising on its use like IBM has done, SCO is trying to succeed by bringing others down which is the first sign of a bandit (couldn't find a better term). And what do you mean by other options? (I'll spare you my ironic example). Also on the topic of corporations (in response to another recent post) I would like to say that corporations where originally designed to protect individuals from law suits, governments (tax collections, inspections, and other nonsense), etc. However, when the corporation is ran by a hired or public body (management, shareholders), it becomes a body much like our government, and no better than it. I personally agree with Peter that we need to solve the problem first (if SCO actually identifies it) and then worry about who is to blame. I personally think lawsuits should have a time limit - 6 months and then it's over. That way normal people can get on with their life. --- Anton -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 12:44:51 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 08:44:51 -0400 Subject: Code Monkey??? In-Reply-To: <20030822220353.26912.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822220353.26912.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <3F4761C3.9030008@codemonkeys.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rick Tomaschuk wrote: | Get a wife and have some kids. Sounds like you have some sort of void | in your life. ;>) So one should get married and have kids not for the love of their partner but to fill a void in their life? Is that why *you* got married? - -- Emir. "If there's anything more important than my ego around, ~ I want it caught and shot now." [Zaphod Beeblebrox] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/R2HDuSy542G+Z7QRAgHFAJsEAxmHXi0AryUHmMYMsf/PZaazMQCfYGsh A8t1FVewFYVcgFHk4QXZlVA= =rxFB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 12:59:26 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 08:59:26 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030822215935.26010.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822215935.26010.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <3F47652E.9060101@codemonkeys.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rick Tomaschuk wrote: | Having viewed the presentation, SCO has a convincing argument to claim | damages from IBM for 2.4-2.6 kernel for multirocessor, JFS, etc. code. | MY UNDERSTANDING is that it is not SCO's intention to undermine the | Linux effort but rather to survive as a "for profit" company in a free | market. Provisions will be made for Linux...stay tuned to SCO! As for | the "greek" code or otherwise in the powerpoint this was how it was | presented PRIOR to NDA. My understanding is that SCO owns copyrights | and trademarks for UNIX SYSTEM V. Most other (nearly all) UNIXes are | based upon licences from SYSTEM V (AT&T) so SCO is at the root of the | UNIX tree. I'm as amazed to hear all this as is everyone. As for | reporters and their articles I've read and will continue to read all I | can find. Your understanding obviously sucks. SCO has failed to make it as a legitimate tech business so they turned to a holding company that intends to make money through litigation. What they're doing can't be described as anything but harmful, striking Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt into hearts of IT managers who'd like to adopt Linux as a cheaper, more reliable platform but are worried of the legal liabilities they may be assuming with that. Furthermore, they have declared GPL illegal, and GPL stands at the base of the Linux, and indeed Free Software, Movement. How could this possibly not an attempt to harm it? However, I'm not suprised that your understanding sucks, for you are so obviously uninformed, not only on the current issue (SCO vs. IBM) but on the UNIX history in general. Before you embarass yourself in pulic again, I strongly advise you to learn some of this history, and pay particular attention ~ to the following keywords: AT&T, Berkeley, System V, 4.4BSD. I'm not here to teach you (I'm here to make fun of you), but suffice to say SCO *is not* at the root of the UNIX tree. - -- Emir. "If there's anything more important than my ego around, ~ I want it caught and shot now." [Zaphod Beeblebrox] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/R2UuuSy542G+Z7QRAougAKCBTiG5WbvpzrhWajd87gZrBwbhSgCfVXvt YWvzw1GltBKdkSYqxNkNBnY= =aHlJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 23:14:56 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 19:14:56 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <1061679182.7180.55.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <20030823155422.31987.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <1061679182.7180.55.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <3F47F570.7050206@codemonkeys.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lloyd D Budd wrote: |>I'm confident in the accuracy of the bulk |>of what I'm saying since I've had the opportunity to get answers |>directly from SCO's CEO and other CEO's and officers who seem to know |>what they are talking about. | | I guess that presents it better, as your previous posting appears | biased. No, Lloyd, you don't understand: Darl "The Annointed One" McBride told him so, and he even had a PowerPoint slide to prove it. Why, that alone is proof enough, wee don't need no historical facts, expert knowledge, or stinkin' courts. It *must* be true! - -- Emir. "If there's anything more important than my ego around, ~ I want it caught and shot now." [Zaphod Beeblebrox] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/R/VwuSy542G+Z7QRArpFAJ4xFJT/oadyR034wT5/xTUmW/f4GQCgl6U7 yAL1v1Qf6JCmbmbNskO3H/o= =7izI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 02:34:24 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 22:34:24 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030824015558.96263.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <3F482430.3010103@codemonkeys.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rick Tomaschuk wrote: | I did not get the impression SCO was trying to drag down the Linux | name especially as a "past time" but rather they are moving to protect | their IP (Intellectual Property) in the very same manner the music | industry has been doing. (ie.Napster) They seem adamant about their | current holdings (UNIX) and are trying to enforce their legal rights. That's OK, we've already concluded beyond reasonable doubt that your power of perception is somewhat lesser than your skills in web design. Nevertheless, it is telling that you draw parallel between SCO and RIAA. | SCO's assertion is that IBM (as a company, not rogue employees) did | knowingly introduce AIX code to Linux licensed from the | SCO/Novell/AT&T agreement. SCOX (Nasdaq $13.55) is a tiny company | approx. 350 employees & current market cap 100M++ now that their stock | price has increased from below one dollar a year ago. They were almost | delisted. I can't make head or tail from this paragraph. What exactly are you trying to say here? What's SCO's assertion on what IBM has and hasn't done got to do with SCO's market cap? | SCO has an impressive team of professionals working on all aspects of this case. How exactly did you come to this conclusion? Did you meet these fine people? How exactly are you so well versed with their expertise and experience? | SCO is not a group of "stupid idiots" as many seem to think they are. Actually, they are. They're running a scam for someone else (hint: big company in northwest USA whose latest desktop operating systems allows people to fly, at least in commercials), hoping to cash in in the process. They certainly have been so far (looking at the stock dumping their execs have exercised over the past few weeks), but it's gonna end sooner or later, because they'll eventually have to show some evidence. They have pissed off the wrong group of people who will want to see them pay for it. And pay they will, no doubt. | I'm amazed no one on the list server with advanced programming skills | took the time to go to Vegas to try to get to the bottom of things or | at the very least to hear SCO's side and grill them on the spot. They | were all there answering any and all questions. At least no one else | on the list server has spoken out yet about their trip to SCOForum | yet I almost did, but then I realized that wiping my ass with those crisp $20 bills would actually be money better spent. I quickly backed off, though, as those greenbacks leave nasty abrasions. | Hell I'm almost sorry I said anything now. That's OK, you just probably never heard of the saying "when you have nothing intelligent to say, better not say anything at all" or "better to have people *think* you're stupid than say something and remove all doubt". You live, you learn, eh? | I UNDERSTAND substantial code exists above and beyond the powerpoint | presentation however SCO is not prepared to release it publicly...yet. You're really beginning to sound more and more like a shill. What's with "yet"? Darl "The Annointed One" McBride has been rather adamant that they're not gonna release any "proof" in public, so who are you to insinuate they may do so in future? | Don't dump on me. Why not? I'd pay you good money... | I support the Linux effort with great enthusiasm | since it began but need to have options for different customers. I'm | as adversely affected by all this the same as others in the industry. Who's adversely affected? As far as Linux adoption is concerned, it has only picked up, not slowed down. Linux users cannot possibly be affected by this, as they can never be asked to pay license fees for alleged copyright violation. ~ Eben Moglen, Professor of Law at Columbia made an analogy of newspaper readers being forced to pay fees for reading an article in the newspaper that was violating copyright of another paper. Of course, there's nothing in your posts thus far that would lead me to believe you'd actually be able to see the idiocy of such a scenario, as you seem to have accepted all other idiocies served to you. | I don't need more FUD in my life. I was working with 3.5, 3.51, NT | when it first arrived. I sure did'nt need that CRAP in my life | especially when Novell had (what I considered) to be rock solid | technology at the time. I welcome all comments. Oh, that's cute, you're trying to score some points with the readers of this list by throwing cheap shots at WinNT, hoping it'll stick coz we all know Linux users are MS haters... | Nothing like a great brainstorming session to liven things up. I think you're confused by terminology here, "brainstorm" is not the same as "brainfart". I think SCO has underestimated this forum's collective intellect when they hired you to shill it. If I was SCO Purchasing Officer, I'd ask for my money back. - -- Emir. "If there's anything more important than my ego around, ~ I want it caught and shot now." [Zaphod Beeblebrox] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/SCQwuSy542G+Z7QRAjZJAKCBC9UfjW2PYnFXOufv/UXFQbi7WACdEZwg 6y3c25Rpk2Zk2R0A8p8Vss0= =o0cC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 05:28:08 2003 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:28:08 -0400 Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead? Message-ID: <3F484CE8.5010709@alteeve.com> Hi all, I know there was a thread on SCO so this may already have been pointed out but if so, I missed it. It looks like the SCO and Caldera websites are gone and have been for several hours now. Curiously, it follows after two days of steady rise in SCOX share price. A rumour we didn't know about? Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 05:54:42 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: 24 Aug 2003 05:54:42 -0000 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: <20030824055442.16474.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> The more I read from you the better the other guys are looking in terms of business partners. I'm sure happy I don't have to work with you. What happened? Mama put you on the toilet seat the wrong way around? RickT If you kick every yappy dog on the way to town...you'll never get there. Bark Bark Amir On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 22:34:24 -0400, Emir wrote : > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > | I did not get the impression SCO was trying to drag down the Linux > | name especially as a "past time" but rather they are moving to protect > | their IP (Intellectual Property) in the very same manner the music > | industry has been doing. (ie.Napster) They seem adamant about their > | current holdings (UNIX) and are trying to enforce their legal rights. > > That's OK, we've already concluded beyond reasonable doubt that your power of > perception is somewhat lesser than your skills in web design. Nevertheless, it > is telling that you draw parallel between SCO and RIAA. > > | SCO's assertion is that IBM (as a company, not rogue employees) did > | knowingly introduce AIX code to Linux licensed from the > | SCO/Novell/AT&T agreement. SCOX (Nasdaq $13.55) is a tiny company > | approx. 350 employees & current market cap 100M++ now that their stock > | price has increased from below one dollar a year ago. They were almost > | delisted. > > I can't make head or tail from this paragraph. What exactly are you trying to > say here? What's SCO's assertion on what IBM has and hasn't done got to do > with SCO's market cap? > > | SCO has an impressive team of professionals working on all aspects of this case. > > How exactly did you come to this conclusion? Did you meet these fine people? > How exactly are you so well versed with their expertise and experience? > > | SCO is not a group of "stupid idiots" as many seem to think they are. > > Actually, they are. They're running a scam for someone else (hint: big company > in northwest USA whose latest desktop operating systems allows people to fly, > at least in commercials), hoping to cash in in the process. They certainly > have been so far (looking at the stock dumping their execs have exercised over > the past few weeks), but it's gonna end sooner or later, because they'll > eventually have to show some evidence. They have pissed off the wrong group of > people who will want to see them pay for it. And pay they will, no doubt. > > | I'm amazed no one on the list server with advanced programming skills > | took the time to go to Vegas to try to get to the bottom of things or > | at the very least to hear SCO's side and grill them on the spot. They > | were all there answering any and all questions. At least no one else > | on the list server has spoken out yet about their trip to SCOForum > | yet > > I almost did, but then I realized that wiping my ass with those crisp $20 bills > would actually be money better spent. I quickly backed off, though, as those > greenbacks leave nasty abrasions. > > | Hell I'm almost sorry I said anything now. > > That's OK, you just probably never heard of the saying "when you have nothing > intelligent to say, better not say anything at all" or "better to have people > *think* you're stupid than say something and remove all doubt". You live, you > learn, eh? > > | I UNDERSTAND substantial code exists above and beyond the powerpoint > | presentation however SCO is not prepared to release it publicly...yet. > > You're really beginning to sound more and more like a shill. What's with > "yet"? Darl "The Annointed One" McBride has been rather adamant that they're > not gonna release any "proof" in public, so who are you to insinuate they may > do so in future? > > | Don't dump on me. > > Why not? I'd pay you good money... > > | I support the Linux effort with great enthusiasm > | since it began but need to have options for different customers. I'm > | as adversely affected by all this the same as others in the industry. > > Who's adversely affected? As far as Linux adoption is concerned, it has only > picked up, not slowed down. Linux users cannot possibly be affected by this, > as they can never be asked to pay license fees for alleged copyright violation. > ~ Eben Moglen, Professor of Law at Columbia made an analogy of newspaper readers > being forced to pay fees for reading an article in the newspaper that was > violating copyright of another paper. > > Of course, there's nothing in your posts thus far that would lead me to believe > you'd actually be able to see the idiocy of such a scenario, as you seem to > have accepted all other idiocies served to you. > > | I don't need more FUD in my life. I was working with 3.5, 3.51, NT > | when it first arrived. I sure did'nt need that CRAP in my life > | especially when Novell had (what I considered) to be rock solid > | technology at the time. I welcome all comments. > > Oh, that's cute, you're trying to score some points with the readers of this > list by throwing cheap shots at WinNT, hoping it'll stick coz we all know Linux > users are MS haters... > > | Nothing like a great brainstorming session to liven things up. > > I think you're confused by terminology here, "brainstorm" is not the same as > "brainfart". > > I think SCO has underestimated this forum's collective intellect when they > hired you to shill it. If I was SCO Purchasing Officer, I'd ask for my money back. > > > - -- > Emir. > > "If there's anything more important than my ego around, > ~ I want it caught and shot now." [Zaphod Beeblebrox] > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/SCQwuSy542G+Z7QRAjZJAKCBC9UfjW2PYnFXOufv/UXFQbi7WACdEZwg > 6y3c25Rpk2Zk2R0A8p8Vss0= > =o0cC > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From posman-FfUIX6OOeZE at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 08:18:57 2003 From: posman-FfUIX6OOeZE at public.gmane.org (Paul Osman) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 04:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead? In-Reply-To: <3F484CE8.5010709-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3F484CE8.5010709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I know there was a thread on SCO so this may already have been > pointed out but if so, I missed it. It looks like the SCO and Caldera > websites are gone and have been for several hours now. Curiously, it > follows after two days of steady rise in SCOX share price. A rumour we > didn't know about? > > Madison > I wonder what their customers think now that they can't even access their website. Fucking losers... honestly. -- Paul Osman paul-FfUIX6OOeZE at public.gmane.org http://perl.eval.ca "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes." - E.W. Dijkstra -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From posman-FfUIX6OOeZE at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 08:22:48 2003 From: posman-FfUIX6OOeZE at public.gmane.org (Paul Osman) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 04:22:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030824055442.16474.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030824055442.16474.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > The more I read from you the better the other guys are looking in > terms of business partners. I'm sure happy I don't have to work with > you. What happened? Mama put you on the toilet seat the wrong way > around? > RickT > > If you kick every yappy dog on the way to town...you'll never get > there. Bark Bark Amir > Okay, first off, don't top post. It's annoying for those of us who want to actually read the thread. Second off, if you are going to respond to someone's post, please make note of the spelling of their name... it's "Emir"; not "Amir" you imbecile. Third off, if you're going to participate in "flame wars", at least make it worth our while... "Mama put you on the toilet seat the wrong way around?" ... extremely lame you fucking moron. -- Paul Osman paul-FfUIX6OOeZE at public.gmane.org http://perl.eval.ca "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes." - E.W. Dijkstra -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 14:01:44 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:01:44 -0400 Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead? In-Reply-To: References: <3F484CE8.5010709@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <3F48C548.1010101@codemonkeys.org> Paul Osman wrote: > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, Madison Kelly wrote: > > >>Hi all, >> >> I know there was a thread on SCO so this may already have been >>pointed out but if so, I missed it. It looks like the SCO and Caldera >>websites are gone and have been for several hours now. Curiously, it >>follows after two days of steady rise in SCOX share price. A rumour we >>didn't know about? >> >>Madison >> > > > I wonder what their customers think now that they can't even access their > website. Fucking losers... honestly. ...and by "customers" I assume you mean "defendents"? -- Emir. "If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now." [Zaphod Beeblebrox] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 14:52:22 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:52:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: debian/woody powrpc + /dev/lp* + serial port: /dev/ttyS1 + powrup self-test ? Message-ID: I now have the modem working fine on my lnux powrmac. The next problem is the printer port. Mac doesn't have a parallel prt, apparently; they use the serial port instead. I have identified it as /dev/ttyS1, courtesy of "dmesg | grep tty", and "setserial /dev/ttyS1", which match irq and hex address. I have an ostensibly working Imagewriter II. (It goes through the powrup tests and behaves as expected.) Yet when I do # cat > /dev/ttyS1 The quick brown fox. nothing comes out the printhead. Yes, I do have it "online". No, I haven't ever had it work with the macos: I am unable (terminally) to work with iconic macos. Any suggestions? Does Imagewriter II have a powerup self-test in eeprom (like various HP devices I've known?) If so, how do I gain access? PS If anyone has a working /etc/printcap for a serial port mac printer, I'd appreciate you posting it. TIA, max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 15:43:46 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 11:43:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E283190C8-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org> References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E283190C8@lynchmail.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <26212.216.138.194.32.1061739826.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > It's my opinion that SCO is hoping for a settlement and never wants to > go to court. Lots of people sue with the hope of getting paid off > because it is cheaper for the defendant to handout the money then to > defend itself. This is entirely possible. It could also be that they don't intend on the case actually going to trial at all, or to settle. They've made enough noise to raise their stocks and cash out with the publicity that this entire fiasco has generated. The other interesting angle is the M$ stakes in this. They are nicely isolated from the heat yet stand to win whichever way this goes. And since sales, marketing and licensing is M$'s biggest virtue, this smells like there may be more of a relationship here than is known about in public circles. Proof is impossible though. > I think this has from the very beginning been a bluff from a very > desperate company. The shenanigan with SCO issuing stocks and then SCO > executives cashing in smells really bad. The Caldera IPO was a farce too. It was 3 months late and a few dollars short in comparison to the Redhat IPO a few months earlier. They couldn't get their paperwork together and when they did it was sus-standard. If they have the same degree of proficiency in preparing for court they will have a hard time of it. > The issuing of licenses appears to nothing more than FUD. Or the hope of a quick cash grab as a result? Same thing... > SCO has alienated just about everyone imaginable, and the SCO execs are > looking for early retirement. Now that they've ruined their careers, they have little choice unless they want to change careers (hopefully to one that requires one to recite "would you like fries with that sir?" a few dozen times a day. > Of course this is just my opinion :) Yeah, too bad they don't ask us to settle the matter :) -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 16:25:37 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:25:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <20030824015558.96263.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <26393.216.138.194.32.1061742337.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > I did not get the impression SCO was trying to drag down the Linux name > especially as a "past time" but rather they are moving to protect their > IP (Intellectual Property) in the very same manner the music industry > has been doing. (ie.Napster) They seem adamant about their current > holdings (UNIX) and are trying to enforce their legal rights. SCO's > assertion is that IBM (as a company, not rogue employees) did knowingly > introduce AIX code to Linux licensed from the > SCO/Novell/AT&T agreement. SCOX (Nasdaq $13.55) is a tiny company > approx. 350 employees & current market cap 100M++ now that their stock > price has increased from below one dollar a year ago. They were almost > delisted. SCO has an impressive team of professionals working on all > aspects of this case. I'm amazed that you can hit the nail on the head and still miss it entirely. The stocks are up, the main shareholders can cash out without losing their shirts (provided they have the legalities in place first). All the rest is snakeoil and red herrings. These are suits, not geeks, making all the noise here. Their priorities are all $$ related. > SCO is not a group of "stupid idiots" as many seem to think they are. > I'm amazed no one on the list server with advanced programming skills > took the time to go to Vegas to try to get to the bottom of things or at > the very least to hear SCO's side and grill them on the spot. They were > all there answering any and all questions. At least no one else on the > list server has spoken out yet about their trip to SCOForum yet. Hell > I'm almost sorry I said anything now. There was nothing going on in Vegas that was worth the trip. SCO wanted to present their case in the court of public opinion to scare you even more. Seems like they succeeded. If you trust the SCO executive that much, put your $$ where your mouth is... buy some non-voting shares of SCOX and hold them for say... a year after this is all over? I believe in them so much that I sold all my Caldera shares 3 hours after the IPO happened. 2 hours more and I would have lost a good chunk of it. > I UNDERSTAND substantial code exists above and beyond the powerpoint > presentation however SCO is not prepared to release it publicly...yet. > Don't dump on me. I support the Linux effort with great enthusiasm since > it began but need to have options for different customers. I'm as > adversely affected by all this the same as others in the industry. I > don't need more FUD in my life. I was working with 3.5, 3.51, NT when it > first arrived. I sure did'nt need that CRAP in my life > especially when Novell had (what I considered) to be rock solid > technology at the time. I welcome all comments. Nothing like a great > brainstorming session to liven things up. Your understanding seems to be informed by one side of the case. By this point, everything SCO releases or says if controlled by shysters. Choose to believe them if you want. It's interesting to see the fallout of all this unravelling. Those who are interested enough in SCO's side of the story seems to be wavering under the onslaught of FUD. The question is will the numbers be sufficient to keep SCO alive beyond the court case, or will they sell out to someone else (in Redmond?) [insert suspicious movie music here] ? BTW... and this is entirely speculation... what happens to software if the copyright owner is defunct? It's not like SCO is going to leave a will or an estate. Is it at this point that M$ buys the ...what? ...copyrights? ...SCO? outright for nothing in a short stock trade? Remember this? http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,110794,00.asp Is any of this making any sense yet? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 16:45:17 2003 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:45:17 -0400 Subject: Help rebuilding Redhat 9 rpm database Message-ID: <20030824124517.A950@m433> My other machine, a 4-year-old Dell of mine, runs OK except that the harddrive has recently begun showing more bad blocks than than a Toronto Argonauts highlight reel. So I went and bought a new drive. I RTFM'd and set the jumper to Master and swapped drives. Then I thought I'd try putting Redhat 9 on the system while I was at it. The install went OK, and the check for bad blocks didn't find anything. I decided to remove Postfix as the mail agent and replace it with ssmtp. Then rpm whined about how mutt depended on Postfix. I did a --nodeps removal of Postfix, and rpm froze. I popped open another tty and killed rpm. Then I tried rebuilding the rpm database from scratch. Two hours ago, I did "rpm -vv --initdb". The response on the screen was... D: opening db environment /var/lib/rpm/Packages joinenv D: opening db index /var/lib/rpm/Packages create mode=0x42 Nothing further since then. Is this a long process on a 450 mhz machine, or are things so badly hosed that I should re-install ? -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 16:49:06 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Help rebuilding Redhat 9 rpm database In-Reply-To: <20030824124517.A950-DPTsmTRGv3o@public.gmane.org> References: <20030824124517.A950@m433> Message-ID: <26483.216.138.194.32.1061743746.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > My other machine, a 4-year-old Dell of mine, runs OK except that the > harddrive has recently begun showing more bad blocks than than a Toronto > Argonauts highlight reel. So I went and bought a new drive. I RTFM'd > and set the jumper to Master and swapped drives. Then I thought I'd try > putting Redhat 9 on the system while I was at it. The install went OK, > and the check for bad blocks didn't find anything. I decided to remove > Postfix as the mail agent and replace it with ssmtp. Then rpm whined > about how mutt depended on Postfix. I did a --nodeps removal of > Postfix, and rpm froze. I popped open another tty and killed rpm. > > Then I tried rebuilding the rpm database from scratch. Two hours ago, > I did "rpm -vv --initdb". The response on the screen was... > > D: opening db environment /var/lib/rpm/Packages joinenv > D: opening db index /var/lib/rpm/Packages create mode=0x42 > > Nothing further since then. Is this a long process on a 450 mhz > machine, or are things so badly hosed that I should re-install ? You did rpm --rebuilddb, right? Might be hosed. If you don't have a big investment in the machine already, might be a good time to reinstall. IIRC ssmtp and postfix can live on a system together. Just do postfix stop and start ssmtp. -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 16:01:40 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 19:01:40 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: debian/woody powrpc + /dev/lp* + serial port: /dev/ttyS1 + powrup self-test ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, Max Blanco wrote: > Yet when I do > # cat > /dev/ttyS1 > The quick brown fox. > > > nothing comes out the printhead. Yes, I do have it "online". No, I > haven't ever had it work with the macos: I am unable (terminally) to work > with iconic macos. It may need a page flush to start moving. > Any suggestions? > > Does Imagewriter II have a powerup self-test in eeprom (like various HP > devices I've known?) If so, how do I gain access? Most (all) intelligent printers have one (winprinters aren't intelligent). Try to hold the button(s) down while cycling the power. Hold them for at least 5 seconds. Try different combinations or look on the internet for more data. > PS If anyone has a working /etc/printcap for a serial port mac printer, > I'd appreciate you posting it. I am sure that you will find one on the net. The 68k Linux users must have managed this a long time ago. FYI the most often encountered nonworking peripheral problem is a bad cable. If you see that things do not behave as they should try another cable first, then everything else. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 18:50:41 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 14:50:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: debian/woody powrpc + /dev/lp* + serial port: /dev/ttyS1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, Max Blanco wrote: > > > Yet when I do > > # cat > /dev/ttyS1 > > The quick brown fox. > > > > > > nothing comes out the printhead. Yes, I do have it "online". No, I > > haven't ever had it work with the macos: I am unable (terminally) to work > > with iconic macos. > > It may need a page flush to start moving. > whazzat? ctrl-L? > > Does Imagewriter II have a powerup self-test in eeprom (like various HP > > devices I've known?) If so, how do I gain access? > > Most (all) intelligent printers have one (winprinters aren't intelligent). > Try to hold the button(s) down while cycling the power. Hold them for at > least 5 seconds. Try different combinations or look on the internet for > more data. These pages helped:
  • Apple II Csa2 FAQs: Printers, Part 18/25
  • Imagewriter.html I got it to do a self-test by holding pwr and ff buttons while starting up. That part works, so I have a functional peripheral. > > PS If anyone has a working /etc/printcap for a serial port mac printer, > > I'd appreciate you posting it. > > I am sure that you will find one on the net. The 68k Linux users must have > managed this a long time ago. > Odd, google couldn't find any with my search strings. Printing-Howto's galore, but no valuable info therein. > FYI the most often encountered nonworking peripheral problem is a bad > cable. If you see that things do not behave as they should try another > cable first, then everything else. The faqs.org 18/25 printer page (ref above) said the same thing. I did a continuity test and my cable is indeed working. Mine is NOT a "straight-through" cable. The correct type of cable for my imagewriter II is NOT straight-through according to faqs.org. I suspect it to be a setserial problem. The faqs.org says 9600 baud is the going rate, yet when I tried to setserial, my keyboard fubarred and I had to reboot. TIA, max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 21:08:15 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 00:08:15 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: Good news: blender is now free Message-ID: The 3d rendering and animation package is now (and has been for a while ?) free and open source. Go to: www.blender3d.org Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 21:32:27 2003 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:32:27 -0400 Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead? In-Reply-To: <3F48C548.1010101-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw@public.gmane.org> References: <3F484CE8.5010709@alteeve.com> <3F48C548.1010101@codemonkeys.org> Message-ID: <200308241732.27561.jmyshrall@golden.net> On August 24, 2003 10:01 am, Emir wrote: > Paul Osman wrote: > > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>Hi all, > >> > >> I know there was a thread on SCO so this may already have been > >>pointed out but if so, I missed it. It looks like the SCO and Caldera > >>websites are gone and have been for several hours now. Curiously, it > >>follows after two days of steady rise in SCOX share price. A rumour we > >>didn't know about? > >> > >>Madison > > > > I wonder what their customers think now that they can't even access their > > website. Fucking losers... honestly. > > ...and by "customers" I assume you mean "defendents"? See what ESR has to say http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2003082400126NWCYLL John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 12:46:31 2003 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:46:31 -0400 Subject: hp deskjet 692c Message-ID: <3F436DA7.24E9EA9D@onlink.net> I'm having trouble printing to my hp deskjet 692c. I chose 'local printer'. RH 7.3 has that exact model listed in printtool (printcof-gui). The sub-listed driver I choose is 'cdj550'. Any kind of print test I do returns, 'There was an error trying to print the test page'. I did a hardware printer test - came out fine. Cable is secure in printer and parallel port. Any ideas? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 03:01:04 2003 From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:01:04 -0400 Subject: HP692 Message-ID: <3F497BF0.4070802@sympatico.ca> You might try the HP Inkjet Project at Sourceforge for a suitable driver. http://hpinkjet.sourceforge.net/ John McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 03:40:58 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:40:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hp deskjet 692c In-Reply-To: <3F436DA7.24E9EA9D-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <3F436DA7.24E9EA9D@onlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Chris Aitken wrote: > I'm having trouble printing to my hp deskjet 692c. > You might try # cat > /dev/lp1 Hello world. Cycle through lp1, lp2, lp3 etcetera to find your printer device. Then make sure your device is connected in software: # printtool to the lpd daemon. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 13:29:49 2003 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: 25 Aug 2003 13:29:49 -0000 Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead? Message-ID: <20030825132949.2037.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> While I hate to keep taking SCO's side in things since I fully support the Linux movement I don't think any of SCO's long time customers care wheather or not SCO's web site is up or not since Openserver has some machines with verified uptimes of 5, 10 and 17+ years without reboot. If any machine is repeatedly attacked by professionals it will crash. RickT On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:32:27 -0400, John Myshrall wrote : > On August 24, 2003 10:01 am, Emir wrote: > > > Paul Osman wrote: > > > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, Madison Kelly wrote: > > >>Hi all, > > >> > > >> I know there was a thread on SCO so this may already have been > > >>pointed out but if so, I missed it. It looks like the SCO and Caldera > > >>websites are gone and have been for several hours now. Curiously, it > > >>follows after two days of steady rise in SCOX share price. A rumour we > > >>didn't know about? > > >> > > >>Madison > > > > > > I wonder what their customers think now that they can't even access their > > > website. Fucking losers... honestly. > > > > ...and by "customers" I assume you mean "defendents"? > > See what ESR has to say > > http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2003082400126NWCYLL > > > John > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 13:55:54 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: demystification of "chat" - re: /dev/tty* + modem test logic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to Tim and Peter for their demystification of the "chat" command. My test logic made no sense as I tried vainly to set up my modem: I had thought "chat" looked at "/dev/modem" implicitly. Not so - see below. A better logic (?) is at end. Tim Writer wrote: > Max Blanco writes: > > > Through which /dev port does "chat" cmd look? > > > > I can't find this info anywhere in the chat man page. There exists no > > "usr/share/doc/chat" directory. > > I believe it reads from standard input and writes to standard output. > If you're using it with PPP, pppd arranges to connect its standard input > and standard output to the relevant tty. On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > chat talk to its stdin and stdout but it will not work stand-alone, as in: > > chat "" ATZ OK /dev/modem > > because the line disipline and buffering need to be set. pppd does this > before calling chat. calling chat as above will fail on any machine, in > despite of working modem etc. The call will hang (can be interrupted with > ^C). > I would appreciate helpful comments on this...: ---begin untested perl code: "/usr/bin/mdmtst"--- #!/usr/bin/perl print STDOUT "mdmtst: program to test your modem.\n"; print STDOUT "\tuse at own risk\n"; #dialout string: $mdmstrng="ATL1DT4165551212\n"; print STDOUT "\tusing: $mdmstrng\n"; #dmesg check: $dmesg=`dmesg | grep tty`; print STDOUT "Your kernel says (man dmesg)\n$dmesg\n"; #tests: &mdmctl("ttyS"); print STDOUT "...deprecated /dev/cua* for ancient distros...\n"; &mdmctl("cua"); print STDOUT "Modem test finished.\n"; sub mdmctl { my $prefix=$@; print STDOUT "Testing: $prefix\*\n"; for $i (0..3) { print STDOUT "\t\/dev\/$prefix$i\n"; open (MDM,">/dev/$prefix$i") or die; print MDM $mdmstrng; sleep(2); close (MDM); } print STDOUT "Done $prefix\* tests.\n"; } ---end untested perl code--- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 15:22:43 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 25 Aug 2003 11:22:43 -0400 Subject: A Canadian Response to SCO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Max Blanco writes: > Can I read somewhere about how this issue affects the little guy? > I have a 1995 distro of redhat. Does this affect me? > What about if I have a 2.2 kernel built in 2000? Check out: http://www.linux.ca/clic/ There is an FAQ there. If you need information that isn't there or linked from there, let me [or the group know] and we'll add it. -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 15:31:37 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 25 Aug 2003 11:31:37 -0400 Subject: Code Monkey??? In-Reply-To: <3F4761C3.9030008-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822220353.26912.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <3F4761C3.9030008@codemonkeys.org> Message-ID: Emir writes: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > | Get a wife and have some kids. Sounds like you have some sort of void > | in your life. ;>) > > So one should get married and have kids not for the love of their partner but > to fill a void in their life? Is that why *you* got married? Lots of guys get married hoping that they can consistently 'fill a void' ;) I only say that because I know that I can't offend anyone that is still reading this stupid thread. -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 16:12:31 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 25 Aug 2003 12:12:31 -0400 Subject: CLIC - How do we join? In-Reply-To: <20030822190736.CF485B8C9B-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20030822190736.CF485B8C9B@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: bob findlay writes: > http://www.linux.ca/clic/ > > It was completely not obvious as to how one goes about joining this effort. > Anyone else found the secret passage? Check the last question in the FAQ. It mentions a mailing list: http://www.linux.ca/clic/educate.shtml#twentyone Also, if you are interested in joining CLUE, there's: http://www.linux.ca/join.cgi and the mailing lists: http://www.linux.ca/lists/ HTH, -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 17:22:29 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:22:29 -0400 Subject: Code Monkey??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c36b2d$79875b00$459d9c18@main> > > I only say that because I know that I can't offend anyone that is still > reading this stupid thread. I got married and got a cat. That's more like filling a gaping void :) Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 17:25:39 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:25:39 -0400 Subject: Good news: blender is now free In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000101c36b2d$eaf1ee90$459d9c18@main> > The 3d rendering and animation package is now (and has been for a while ?) > free and open source. Go to: > > www.blender3d.org > > Peter Thanks for the link Peter, I checked out Blender, and I must say, the stuff some people have made with it is fantastic. That said, to get going is harder than I though with the layout not being very intuitive and having to buy the docs to get started. If these guys keep working on it, perhaps they can jazz up the interface to rival 3DS or similar. I am a total convert to the cross platform compatibility aspect, its amazing that you can work on your MAC/PC, and throw the file onto a linux box for rendering without problems. In my tests, I was getting 50-100% speed improvements, if not higher. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 24 21:29:59 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 00:29:59 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: debian/woody powrpc + /dev/lp* + serial port: /dev/ttyS1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, Max Blanco wrote: > The faqs.org says 9600 baud is the going rate, yet when I tried to > setserial, my keyboard fubarred and I had to reboot. ?! why would that happen ? Maybe you are trying to write to the wrong port ? I do not know what the tty keyboard looks like on a Mac but if you tried to configure that or a UART (Z8530) shared with it then it would explain it. You also want to see the manpage of stty wrt. settings for manual testing like buffering etc. If the printer is post script then the raw text you send will cause the interpreter to curl up and die. Try to send a short ps file. Like man man -Tps >/dev/wherever. Even this may not work if the printer requires JCL control to enter PS mode or xon/xoff handshake. You have to find some info on your printer. A captured printer file from another Mac with the same printer would help a lot. Have you tried to look at the printer's answers ? As in cat References: Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, Max Blanco wrote: > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Chris Aitken wrote: > > > I'm having trouble printing to my hp deskjet 692c. > > > > You might try > # cat > /dev/lp1 > Hello world. > > > > Cycle through lp1, lp2, lp3 etcetera to find your printer device. > Then make sure your device is connected in software: > # printtool > to the lpd daemon. HP692C is a winprinter of sorts afaik. It won't respond to your test code. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 18:12:52 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:12:52 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: Good news: blender is now free In-Reply-To: <000101c36b2d$eaf1ee90$459d9c18-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <000101c36b2d$eaf1ee90$459d9c18@main> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Thanks for the link Peter, I checked out Blender, and I must say, the > stuff some people have made with it is fantastic. That said, to get > going is harder than I though with the layout not being very intuitive > and having to buy the docs to get started. If these guys keep working on You don't really need to buy the docs to get started. There are plenty of tutorials on the web. If you still like it afterwards, buy the docs ;-) I agree that the learning curve is very steep. I used Blender before (came with better Linux distros as payware demo since 1999 or before). I am very impressed by the speed even on substandard hardware and by the *size*. This is a 3d animation studio with game scripting capability that weighs in under 3Megs !!! Microsloth has a lot to learn about getting animations right and code small (and fast!). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 19:21:05 2003 From: btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (bill traynor) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:21:05 -0400 Subject: sign your name to support the Canadian SCO response Message-ID: <3F4A61A1.6000700@linux.ca> If you would like to publicly support the work of the Canadian Linux Interests Coalition (CLIC) in organizing a Canadian response to SCO's attacks, you can now do so -- visit http://www.linux.ca/clic/endorse.shtml to learn how. Three ocluggers have already stepped forward, and the more endorsements CLIC has--from across Canada--the better we can show a united oppostion to SCO. Thanks Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 20:10:05 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:10:05 -0400 Subject: debian/woody powrpc + /dev/lp* + serial port: /dev/ttyS1 + powrup self-test ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030825201005.GD1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 10:52:22AM -0400, Max Blanco wrote: > I now have the modem working fine on my lnux powrmac. The next problem is > the printer port. Mac doesn't have a parallel prt, apparently; they use > the serial port instead. I have identified it as /dev/ttyS1, courtesy of > "dmesg | grep tty", and "setserial /dev/ttyS1", which match irq and hex > address. > > I have an ostensibly working Imagewriter II. (It goes through the powrup > tests and behaves as expected.) > > Yet when I do > # cat > /dev/ttyS1 > The quick brown fox. > > > nothing comes out the printhead. Yes, I do have it "online". No, I > haven't ever had it work with the macos: I am unable (terminally) to work > with iconic macos. > > Any suggestions? > > Does Imagewriter II have a powerup self-test in eeprom (like various HP > devices I've known?) If so, how do I gain access? > > PS If anyone has a working /etc/printcap for a serial port mac printer, > I'd appreciate you posting it. Well you could install the cupsys printer system (much much better than lpr/lpd) and the approrpaite cupsomatic/foomatic packages to get http://localhost:631 working and see if using the web interface it works then. It has a pretty good list of printers and ports to choose from. Assuming the cable is right, that should do something. Well hopefully. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 19:57:31 2003 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:57:31 -0400 Subject: hp deskjet 692c In-Reply-To: ; from plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg@public.gmane.org on Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 13:49:26 -0400 References: Message-ID: <20030825195731.GA4251@pc.mtmk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> > > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Chris Aitken wrote: > > > I'm having trouble printing to my hp deskjet 692c. > > > The following site should help you: http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=HP-DeskJet_692C -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 20:13:21 2003 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:13:21 -0400 Subject: Good news: blender is now free In-Reply-To: <000101c36b2d$eaf1ee90$459d9c18-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org>; from sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g@public.gmane.org on Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 13:25:39 -0400 References: <000101c36b2d$eaf1ee90$459d9c18@main> Message-ID: <20030825201321.GB4251@pc.mtmk.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> > The 3d rendering and animation package is now (and has been for a while ?) > free and open source. Go to: [snip] > > Peter Blender has been "free" for a long time. The blender 1.5 manual is dated October 1998. The program could be downloaded with most features available. Through a small fee you were able to get a key file to unlock some additional features. The program went open source July 12 of last year. For more details (and a one year report on the program's development since it became OS), take a look at: http://www.blender.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=62&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 (The above URL should be all on one line with no spaces.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 20:15:01 2003 From: bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (misterbonnie) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:15:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: IRQ5 CALL4 SUBMISSIONS Message-ID: 4 IMMEDI8 RELEASE ************* do while date < sept 24 if you = "artist" -----------> requesting interrupt!!!! IRQ ====> a monthly evening of art music & technology FUNHAUS TORONTO ONTARIO CANADA is looking for work 2b featured @IRQ5...... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SEPT 24 2003 technology based/new media work is sought>>>>>>>>>>>> [established/emerging/student] [video/computer/electronics] [hifi, lofi, wifi] new and/or existing work. ------->show us... no artist st8mnt req'd contact us @ irq-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org or "voice" 416.534.5417 fi done please see http://asciipr0n.com/irq/ IRQ mailing list loc8d @ http://misterbonnie.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/irq bcnu suzanne and/or misterbonnie EOF -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 20:29:50 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:29:50 -0400 Subject: IRQ5 CALL4 SUBMISSIONS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F4A71BE.30107@codemonkeys.org> On 25/08/2003 16:15, misterbonnie wrote: > 4 IMMEDI8 RELEASE ************* > > do while date < sept 24 > if you = "artist" > > -----------> requesting interrupt!!!! > IRQ ====> a monthly evening of art music & technology > FUNHAUS TORONTO ONTARIO CANADA > is looking for work 2b featured @IRQ5...... > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SEPT 24 2003 > > technology based/new media work is sought>>>>>>>>>>>> > [established/emerging/student] > [video/computer/electronics] > [hifi, lofi, wifi] > > new and/or existing work. > ------->show us... no artist st8mnt req'd > contact us @ irq-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org or "voice" 416.534.5417 > fi > done > > please see http://asciipr0n.com/irq/ > > IRQ mailing list loc8d @ > http://misterbonnie.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/irq > > bcnu > suzanne and/or misterbonnie > EOF hardc0r3! .( )., ()_. .() ( } ( ) ( ) ^,^( ) ( )\ -/( ) | ,/_ ,' `'\ | \ / | \_ -. _.- } \ _' .-./ .-'_.- -. '-. |m|\ ' \|m| ( v ) / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ <--- teh akimbo / \ '-----_-----_-' \ / \ / v v -- Emir. "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 23:24:36 2003 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 25 Aug 2003 19:24:36 -0400 Subject: demystification of "chat" - re: /dev/tty* + modem test logic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Max Blanco writes: > Thanks to Tim and Peter for their demystification of the "chat" command. > My test logic made no sense as I tried vainly to set up my modem: I had > thought "chat" looked at "/dev/modem" implicitly. Not so - see below. > A better logic (?) is at end. See my comments below. > Tim Writer wrote: > > > Max Blanco writes: > > > > > > Through which /dev port does "chat" cmd look? > > > > > > I can't find this info anywhere in the chat man page. There exists no > > > "usr/share/doc/chat" directory. > > > > I believe it reads from standard input and writes to standard output. > > If you're using it with PPP, pppd arranges to connect its standard input > > and standard output to the relevant tty. > > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > > > > chat talk to its stdin and stdout but it will not work stand-alone, as in: > > > > chat "" ATZ OK /dev/modem > > > > because the line disipline and buffering need to be set. pppd does this > > before calling chat. calling chat as above will fail on any machine, in > > despite of working modem etc. The call will hang (can be interrupted with > > ^C). > > > > I would appreciate helpful comments on this...: > ---begin untested perl code: "/usr/bin/mdmtst"--- > #!/usr/bin/perl > print STDOUT "mdmtst: program to test your modem.\n"; > print STDOUT "\tuse at own risk\n"; > #dialout string: > $mdmstrng="ATL1DT4165551212\n"; > print STDOUT "\tusing: $mdmstrng\n"; > > #dmesg check: > $dmesg=`dmesg | grep tty`; > print STDOUT "Your kernel says (man dmesg)\n$dmesg\n"; > > #tests: > &mdmctl("ttyS"); > print STDOUT "...deprecated /dev/cua* for ancient distros...\n"; > &mdmctl("cua"); > print STDOUT "Modem test finished.\n"; > > sub mdmctl { > my $prefix=$@; > print STDOUT "Testing: $prefix\*\n"; > for $i (0..3) { > print STDOUT "\t\/dev\/$prefix$i\n"; > open (MDM,">/dev/$prefix$i") or die; > print MDM $mdmstrng; > sleep(2); > close (MDM); > } > print STDOUT "Done $prefix\* tests.\n"; > } > ---end untested perl code--- In a nutshell, you're trying to cycle through /dev/ttyS{0,1,2,3} in an attempt to ... what, find your modem? As noted above, there's more to working with a modem (or any serial device) than just opening it. You have to deal with issues like buffering, inter-character delays, baud rate, parity, and reading and writing from the same device. Rather than reinvent the wheel, I'd suggest using something like minicom or kermit. If you have to write a script or you're just interested in learning about it, you should read Chapter 11 of "Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment" by Richard Stevens. -- tim writer starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 20 14:19:39 2003 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:19:39 -0400 Subject: hp deskjet 692c References: Message-ID: <3F43837A.9BC55202@onlink.net> Max Blanco wrote: > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Chris Aitken wrote: > > > I'm having trouble printing to my hp deskjet 692c. > > > > You might try > # cat > /dev/lp1 I tried several and lp0 worked > > Hello world. > > Interesting...printed 'Hello world.' [...] > Then make sure your device is connected in software: > # printtool > to the lpd daemon. Not sure wat you mean by "device is connected...to the lpd daemon." In printtool I choose 'Local' (because 'LPD' option prompts me for a server, which does not apply here), and driver 'hpijs' under the 'hp692c' heading. After I 'create' the software printer I get 'lpd restarted successfully'. Then , 'There was an error trying to print the test page.' Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 13:38:38 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hp deskjet 692c In-Reply-To: <3F43837A.9BC55202-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <3F43837A.9BC55202@onlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Chris Aitken wrote: > I tried several and lp0 worked > > > > > Hello world. > > > > > > Interesting...printed 'Hello world.' > Great news... you can now "cat anyfilename.txt > /dev/lp0", so it's almost working. > > Then make sure your device is connected in software: > > # printtool > > to the lpd daemon. > > Not sure wat you mean by "device is connected...to the lpd daemon." > I'm not sure what I meant either 8) In my version of printool, there is a message that says the lpd daemon is connected to the lp1 device. " Printer queues in /etc/printcap lp "local printer on /dev/lp1" " I am unfamiliar with the more recent versions of printtool. Could you append the relevant text onto your next message? > In printtool I choose 'Local' (because 'LPD' option prompts me for a > server, which does not apply here), and driver 'hpijs' under the > 'hp692c' heading. > I thought you could use 'hp692c' driver, not 'hpijs'?? At this point, you may have to tune the /etc/printcap file by hand. I'll send you mine for a template if you want. It's important to notice that the printtool window is just a GUI interface reflecting the contents of /etc/printcap... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 13:39:31 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:39:31 -0500 Subject: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <000801c3674c$784f6370$459d9c18-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <000801c3674c$784f6370$459d9c18@main> Message-ID: <20030826133931.E311F73C9F@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:54:22 -0400, "Sidney Shapiro" said: > > > > There's a group of people meeting to learn PHP Thursday nights at 6pm > > down at St. Christopher House at Ossington & Dundas. I'm sure you'd > be > > welcome to drop in and ask questions there. > > > > St. Chris has a computer program at that locaation that is working > > towards developing a Linux/Open Source learning centre - they > currently > > have five or six computers that will be available for a linux > conversion > > in a couple of weeks so anyone interested in participating might want > to > > pay them a visit and talk to the coordinator Randall. > > > > Here's their web page: > > http://www.bangthedrum.net > > > > I've got current versions of Libranet and Xandros that I could > contribute > > to this. > > Is there a number I could call them at? The coordinator Randall's number is 416 532-4828 x243. They're open Tues, Wed 1 - 5:45 Thur, Fri 3 - 7:45 Sat 10 - 4 Sorry about the delay responding to this - way up north for six days :) ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 13:54:35 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: debian/woody powrpc + /dev/lp* + serial port: /dev/ttyS1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Sun, 24 Aug 2003, Max Blanco wrote: > > > The faqs.org says 9600 baud is the going rate, yet when I tried to > > setserial, my keyboard fubarred and I had to reboot. > > ?! why would that happen ? Maybe you are trying to write to the wrong port > ? I do not know what the tty keyboard looks like on a Mac but if you tried > to configure that or a UART (Z8530) shared with it then it would explain > it. > Yes... are you saying that the keyboard and modem on the macos are split in fact at a physical outside-the-box level, and represented as separate devices but handled by the same 8530. What I saw was evidence of a buffer overflow? > You also want to see the manpage of stty wrt. settings for manual testing > like buffering etc. > > If the printer is post script then the raw text you send will cause the > interpreter to curl up and die. Try to send a short ps file. Like man man > -Tps >/dev/wherever. Even this may not work if the printer requires JCL > control to enter PS mode or xon/xoff handshake. You have to find some info > on your printer. A captured printer file from another Mac with the same > printer would help a lot. Have you tried to look at the printer's answers > ? As in cat again. You can test the port completely and maybe talk to the printer for > testing using minicom, since it is serial. > Thanks for a gold mine of suggestions! The kermit interface worked. I "set line /dev/ttyS1", connected and nothing came out. I returned to the kermit prompt and "set speed 9600" (it defaulted to 38400). That worked. Now all I need is an /etc/printcap entry and I'm done. Unfortunately, I don't know the printcap syntax well. I guess I'll have to learn. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 14:00:49 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: St. Christopher House web page needs alt tags, was RE: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <20030826133931.E311F73C9F-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20030826133931.E311F73C9F@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > > > Here's their web page: > > > http://www.bangthedrum.net > > > Do they know about ? It seems like they have excluded the lynx user... Using Technology to Promote Social Inclusion Information and Communication Technologies (ICT) are increasingly becoming a basic need for people living and working in Canada. In order to have control over one's life people need to access and be able to apply the standard tools of our society. Not being able to access or manipulate ICT creates a disadvantage to those without access or skills. The St. Christopher House Community Learning Network is about enhancing people's ability to use computers and the Internet to engage in meaningful social activities. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 14:14:07 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cupsys vs lpd Re:debian/woody powrpc + /dev/lp* + serial In-Reply-To: <20030825201005.GD1405-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20030825201005.GD1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well you could install the cupsys printer system (much much better than > lpr/lpd) and the approrpaite cupsomatic/foomatic packages to get > http://localhost:631 working and see if using the web interface it works > then. It has a pretty good list of printers and ports to choose from. > > Assuming the cable is right, that should do something. Well hopefully. > Thanks for the tip. See my post to Peter earlier today. I prefer to get into the stuff I know, albeit poorly. I think the concept of web interface is good, but it requires httpd to work and adds another level of indirection. This is fine if you want/like a m$-type interface, but not if you want to get under the hood. Why replicate m$ behaviour? When you get down to it, IMHO, "cat" is the way to go. lpd is second best (1 level of indirection). cupsys is third (multiple levels of indirection; httpd required). (Yes, I know that if you extend my logic, I'd be talking to the printer in hex.) Is cupsys an interface to /etc/printcap? The cable works all right. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 14:44:13 2003 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:44:13 -0400 Subject: cupsys vs lpd Re:debian/woody powrpc + /dev/lp* + serial In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F4B723D.4000708@truxtar.com> Max Blanco wrote: > I think the concept of web >interface is good, but it requires httpd to work and adds another level of >indirection. > Cups does not require httpd to work. The cupsd demon has a built-in web server. I found cups to be the easiest to use and it supports my HP Deskjet 660C perfectly on a PC with the default hpijs driver. Plus you can configure it with KDE's control center or GNOME's print manager. --- Anton -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 14:54:02 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:54:02 -0400 Subject: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <20030826133931.E311F73C9F-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20030826133931.E311F73C9F@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <004b01c36be1$f92522c0$6401a8c0@main> > > Sorry about the delay responding to this - way up north for six days :) > ------------------- > Andrew Malcolmson No problem Andrew, Thanks for posting it. I just got back from way up north as well, I was up in Chapleau doing some scanning (thousands of charts for a hospital) for about a week and am probably going back for a week of more "work". I.e. Fishing, boating and relaxation :) Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 17:42:27 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:42:27 -0400 Subject: cupsys vs lpd Re:debian/woody powrpc + /dev/lp* + serial In-Reply-To: References: <20030825201005.GD1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030826174227.GF1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 10:14:07AM -0400, Max Blanco wrote: > Thanks for the tip. See my post to Peter earlier today. I prefer to get > into the stuff I know, albeit poorly. I think the concept of web > interface is good, but it requires httpd to work and adds another level of > indirection. This is fine if you want/like a m$-type interface, but not > if you want to get under the hood. Why replicate m$ behaviour? > > When you get down to it, IMHO, "cat" > is the way to go. lpd is second best (1 level of indirection). cupsys is > third (multiple levels of indirection; httpd required). (Yes, I know that > if you extend my logic, I'd be talking to the printer in hex.) There is certainly no httpd needed for cupsys. It has it's own web server on port 631 that it uses for both administration and IPP printing acces (usable among others by any unix system with IPP or cupsys, Windows 2000, XP, 98 with add on client, Mac OS X 10.2+, etc). It is even the default on Mac OS X 10.2. It is in no way extra indirection over lpd. It is an independant printer system. > Is cupsys an interface to /etc/printcap? No it is a new much better replacement for the old unix printing garbage. :) It doesn't use printcap at all. It has command line utils that behave like lp or lpr (your choice of sysV or BSD style) that have support for extended options like resolution, duplex, n-up, etc. > The cable works all right. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-yzlPDbdf3LosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 13 02:40:36 2003 From: robert-yzlPDbdf3LosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Robert M) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:40:36 -0400 Subject: Learning PHP References: <004b01c36be1$f92522c0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <000701c36144$4a2f7380$0b01a8c0@win98p4> There is a site in need of forum moderators, and contributions with regards to articles and news about LAMP servers LAMP = Linix Apache MySQL PHP http://lampware.org BTW some great links are already there, but it could do with some articles ( for those of you who can type and have something to say ) If you care to help with forum moderation or administration just email the main admin R M ----- Original Message ----- From: Sidney Shapiro To: Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:54 AM Subject: RE: [TLUG]: Learning PHP > > > > Sorry about the delay responding to this - way up north for six days > :) > > ------------------- > > Andrew Malcolmson > > No problem Andrew, Thanks for posting it. I just got back from way up > north as well, I was up in Chapleau doing some scanning (thousands of > charts for a hospital) for about a week and am probably going back for a > week of more "work". I.e. Fishing, boating and relaxation :) > > Sid > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 14:17:08 2003 From: fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org (bob findlay) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:17:08 -0400 Subject: Konqueror and Yahoo Groups Message-ID: <20030827141312.04853B5C54@outbox.allstream.net> I've recently begun to use Konqueror more for my day to day web browsing. For the most part it does a great job with websites. There are some exceptions such as http://www.yahoogroups.com. I seem to be able to sign in OK from the main page, but when I try to reach any of my groups I am rewarded with a blank screen. I've experimented with the View mode (ie. changing it to KMozilla) and I can sometimes get my group page to render but the links reward me with blank pages. When I ask to view the source of those blank pages I get a blank editor window. Mozilla seems to work fine as far as I can tell. I'm curious as to what is going on here. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 14:19:10 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:19:10 -0400 Subject: Konqueror and Yahoo Groups In-Reply-To: <20030827141312.04853B5C54-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20030827141312.04853B5C54@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <200308271019.11328.fraser@wehave.net> On August 27, 2003 10:17 am, bob findlay wrote: > I seem to be able to sign in OK from the main page, but when I try to > reach any of my groups I am rewarded with a blank screen. > > I've experimented with the View mode (ie. changing it to KMozilla) and I > can sometimes get my group page to render but the links reward me with > blank pages. When I ask to view the source of those blank pages I get a > blank editor window. A couple of wild guesses that may be obvious ... Make sure that Konqueror is configured to allow cookies, java and javascript ... yahoo might be using one of those. If that is not the problem try changing your browser identification to pretend that Konqueror is IE or Netscape, I have to do that with PC banking before they'll let me bank. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 14:51:44 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:51:44 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <20030827141312.04853B5C54-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20030827141312.04853B5C54@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <005d01c36caa$d16abfa0$6401a8c0@main> Help! My system seems to have run out of space on /dev/hda6 and it causing lots and lots of problems. Everything on the server is set up as RAID5 (Values shown below are 1/3 of system space). How can I shrink /dev/md0 and increase the size of hda6, or some other suggestions to get this working? Any suggestions would be really appreciated. I am running RH7.3 Thanks, Sid [root @ root]# df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/hda6 372M 354M 0 100% / /dev/hda1 45M 8.7M 34M 21% /boot /dev/md0 147G 9.3G 130G 7% /home none 283M 0 282M 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda3 8.6G 1.7G 6.5G 21% /usr /dev/hda7 26G 1.7G 23G 7% /var -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:01:54 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:01:54 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <005d01c36caa$d16abfa0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <20030827141312.04853B5C54@outbox.allstream.net> <005d01c36caa$d16abfa0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <20030827150154.GH1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 10:51:44AM -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Help! My system seems to have run out of space on /dev/hda6 and it > causing lots and lots of problems. Everything on the server is set up as > RAID5 (Values shown below are 1/3 of system space). How can I shrink > /dev/md0 and increase the size of hda6, or some other suggestions to get > this working? Any suggestions would be really appreciated. I am running > RH7.3 > > Thanks, > > Sid > > [root @ root]# df -h > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda6 372M 354M 0 100% / > /dev/hda1 45M 8.7M 34M 21% /boot > /dev/md0 147G 9.3G 130G 7% /home > none 283M 0 282M 0% /dev/shm > /dev/hda3 8.6G 1.7G 6.5G 21% /usr > /dev/hda7 26G 1.7G 23G 7% /var du -shx /* Find out what is eating that much space on / Given /var, /home and /usr are seperate, maybe /root has been a messy user. :) Or /tmp is too busy and should be mounted elsewhere. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:03:02 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:03:02 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <005d01c36caa$d16abfa0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <005d01c36caa$d16abfa0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <3F4CC826.1040901@codemonkeys.org> On 27/08/2003 10:51, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Help! My system seems to have run out of space on /dev/hda6 and it > causing lots and lots of problems. Everything on the server is set up as > RAID5 (Values shown below are 1/3 of system space). How can I shrink > /dev/md0 and increase the size of hda6, or some other suggestions to get > this working? Any suggestions would be really appreciated. I am running > RH7.3 Start by opening a new thread and not replying to an unrelated message that messes up the thread view. Perhaps then someone who's not ignoring this thread (Konqueror and Yahoo Groups) will see your message and attempt to help you. -- Emir. "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:07:11 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:07:11 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <005d01c36caa$d16abfa0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <005d01c36caa$d16abfa0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <200308271107.11977.fraser@wehave.net> On August 27, 2003 10:51 am, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > [root @ root]# df -h > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda6 372M 354M 0 100% / Why do you have this problem? On my Debian system I have almost 3GB of stuff installed and my root is only 161 MB ... I've split off /usr and /var as you have but I still have /boot as part of /. Check what's hogging your space ... I just checked a rh7.3 system that I have access to and it's only using 216 MB for / despite tonnes of software being installed (3.8 GB /usr). One culprit might be extra kernels that are installed. /lib/modules can get pretty huge with a few 2.4 kernels installed. Recent Debian kernels have a /lib/modules/2.4.x/ directory of around 25 MB each. Another problem might be /tmp or /root If there really is a legitimage reason for all that space being used then I'd just pop in another disk and copy the root partition over to it. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:07:52 2003 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:07:52 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error References: <20030827141312.04853B5C54@outbox.allstream.net> <005d01c36caa$d16abfa0$6401a8c0@main> <20030827150154.GH1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <001e01c36cac$fe3e3410$76cebfd8@viper> As a quick fix, I used to boot into single mode, and then ditch some large files or logs etc I did not need to make space... Linux will save about 5% of the inodes, so diskspace used is really not 100%. Long term fix will require finding what is on / that is using the space, be it /var or whatever and moving it somewhere else..(ie. another disk) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lennart Sorensen" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Help! Disk space error > On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 10:51:44AM -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > > Help! My system seems to have run out of space on /dev/hda6 and it > > causing lots and lots of problems. Everything on the server is set up as > > RAID5 (Values shown below are 1/3 of system space). How can I shrink > > /dev/md0 and increase the size of hda6, or some other suggestions to get > > this working? Any suggestions would be really appreciated. I am running > > RH7.3 > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sid > > > > [root @ root]# df -h > > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > > /dev/hda6 372M 354M 0 100% / > > /dev/hda1 45M 8.7M 34M 21% /boot > > /dev/md0 147G 9.3G 130G 7% /home > > none 283M 0 282M 0% /dev/shm > > /dev/hda3 8.6G 1.7G 6.5G 21% /usr > > /dev/hda7 26G 1.7G 23G 7% /var > > du -shx /* > > Find out what is eating that much space on / > > Given /var, /home and /usr are seperate, maybe /root has been a messy > user. :) > > Or /tmp is too busy and should be mounted elsewhere. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:08:24 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:08:24 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <3F4CC826.1040901-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw@public.gmane.org> References: <3F4CC826.1040901@codemonkeys.org> Message-ID: <006301c36cad$255538f0$6401a8c0@main> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Emir > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 11:03 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Help! Disk space error > > On 27/08/2003 10:51, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > > > Help! My system seems to have run out of space on /dev/hda6 and it > > causing lots and lots of problems. Everything on the server is set up as > > RAID5 (Values shown below are 1/3 of system space). How can I shrink > > /dev/md0 and increase the size of hda6, or some other suggestions to get > > this working? Any suggestions would be really appreciated. I am running > > RH7.3 > > Start by opening a new thread and not replying to an unrelated message > that > messes up the thread view. Perhaps then someone who's not ignoring this > thread (Konqueror and Yahoo Groups) will see your message and attempt to > help you. > > > -- > Emir. > I though that by removing the title and message it would revert to a new thread. My apologies, I will know better for the future. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:10:39 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:10:39 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <20030827150154.GH1405-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20030827150154.GH1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0@main> > > du -shx /* > > Find out what is eating that much space on / > > Given /var, /home and /usr are seperate, maybe /root has been a messy > user. :) > > Or /tmp is too busy and should be mounted elsewhere. > > Lennart Sorensen I erased most of the log files I did not need, and cleaned up some files which were sitting in root as well. When I type du -shx /* this is what I got: [root at root]# du -shx /* 5.8M /bin 4.7M /boot 270k /dev 5.1M /etc Is there a way to resize my partition? Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:15:13 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:15:13 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <001e01c36cac$fe3e3410$76cebfd8-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org> References: <20030827141312.04853B5C54@outbox.allstream.net> <20030827150154.GH1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c36cac$fe3e3410$76cebfd8@viper> Message-ID: <200308271115.13993.fraser@wehave.net> On August 27, 2003 11:07 am, teddymills wrote: > Linux will save about 5% of the inodes, so diskspace used is really not > 100%. Not necessarily. Isn't that 5% saved for root? If the files that filled / belong to root (and if I'm correct ;-) then it very well might be at 100%. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:18:00 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <005d01c36caa$d16abfa0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <005d01c36caa$d16abfa0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Help! My system seems to have run out of space on /dev/hda6 and it > causing lots and lots of problems. Everything on the server is set up as > RAID5 (Values shown below are 1/3 of system space). How can I shrink > /dev/md0 and increase the size of hda6, or some other suggestions to get That will depend on the type of filesystem you are using. Don't consider growing/shrinking filesystems on production boxes unless you are sure you have your data safely backed up (which should be the case anyway). > this working? Any suggestions would be really appreciated. I am running > RH7.3 Do this: cd / du -sh * See where the data is being taken up. I see you do not have /tmp seperate. You might like to consider this. At a pinch you could symlink /tmp to /var/tmp although I don't recommend it as a long term solution. If you do this, take the box to single user first. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:17:45 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:17:45 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <200308271107.11977.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308271107.11977.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: <006a01c36cae$73e45900$6401a8c0@main> > > Why do you have this problem? On my Debian system I have almost 3GB of > stuff > installed and my root is only 161 MB ... I've split off /usr and /var as > you > have but I still have /boot as part of /. > > Check what's hogging your space ... I just checked a rh7.3 system that I > have > access to and it's only using 216 MB for / despite tonnes of software > being > installed (3.8 GB /usr). > > One culprit might be extra kernels that are installed. /lib/modules can > get > pretty huge with a few 2.4 kernels installed. Recent Debian kernels have > a > /lib/modules/2.4.x/ directory of around 25 MB each. > > Another problem might be /tmp or /root > > If there really is a legitimage reason for all that space being used then > I'd > just pop in another disk and copy the root partition over to it. I am not sure what is causing this problem, when I erased a bunch of log and temp files stored under / I did manage to free up some space. If I was to add another hard drive, would it be a problem to get it working with the RAID5 the other drives are on? I would rather take some free space (if possible) from somewhere else and add it to /. Sid [root at root]# df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/hda6 372M 95M 258M 27% / /dev/hda1 45M 8.7M 34M 21% /boot /dev/md0 147G 9.3G 130G 7% /home none 283M 0 282M 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda3 8.6G 1.7G 6.5G 21% /usr /dev/hda7 26G 1.7G 23G 7% /var -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:22:46 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: 27 Aug 2003 11:22:46 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <1061997766.3985.3.camel@yoda> On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 11:10, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > I erased most of the log files I did not need, and cleaned up some files > which were sitting in root as well. When I type du -shx /* this is what > I got: [root at root]# du -shx /* > 5.8M /bin > 4.7M /boot > 270k /dev > 5.1M /etc > > Is there a way to resize my partition? > > Sid Something doesn't add up. In your previous message, df showed 354M/372M available on / but here it seems like only 15.9M is used. Did you free 338.1M of logs? If so, then what's the problem? I've been told fips is the program to use for resizing partitions, but I haven't used it yet. Be warned; messing with partitions is a great way to lose data. HPH! Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Reminds me of my safari in Africa. Somebody forgot the corkscrew and for several days we had to live on nothing but food and water. -- W. C. Fields ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:20:19 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:20:19 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <200308271115.13993.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308271115.13993.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: <006b01c36cae$cf56afe0$6401a8c0@main> > > On August 27, 2003 11:07 am, teddymills wrote: > > > Linux will save about 5% of the inodes, so diskspace used is really not > > 100%. > > Not necessarily. Isn't that 5% saved for root? If the files that filled > / > belong to root (and if I'm correct ;-) then it very well might be at 100%. Yeah, all the files that were filling up / (ie the 30% I removed) all did belong to root. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:27:17 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:27:17 -0400 Subject: Threads: they're everywhere and they're out to get *you* In-Reply-To: <006301c36cad$255538f0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <006301c36cad$255538f0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <3F4CCDD5.8000406@codemonkeys.org> On 27/08/2003 11:08, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > I though that by removing the title and message it would revert to a new > thread. My apologies, I will know better for the future. Good clients use "Message-ID", "References", "In-Reply-To", and "Supersedes" headers which you normally don't modify yourself. That's how they manage to figure out threads even when subject changes. -- Emir. "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:31:30 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:31:30 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <1061997766.3985.3.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org> References: <1061997766.3985.3.camel@yoda> Message-ID: <006e01c36cb0$5cb733e0$6401a8c0@main> > Something doesn't add up. In your previous message, df showed 354M/372M > available on / but here it seems like only 15.9M is used. Did you free > 338.1M of logs? If so, then what's the problem? > > I've been told fips is the program to use for resizing partitions, but I > haven't used it yet. Be warned; messing with partitions is a great way > to lose data. > > HPH! > > Kareem > Youre right, I cant see how the numbers add up. All I deleted was two unneeded files in / and a bunch of old log files... This is what I get now: [root at root]# du -sh * 1.1M Desktop 31k Mail 27k PLSK.00015231.0000.sh 4.0k anaconda-ks.cfg 727k easypsa 5.3M image 2.0k index.html 22k install.log 0 install.log.syslog 3.0k mail 1.0k nsmail [root at root]# df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/hda6 372M 95M 258M 27% / /dev/hda1 45M 8.7M 34M 21% /boot /dev/md0 147G 9.3G 130G 7% /home none 283M 0 282M 0% /dev/shm /dev/hda3 8.6G 1.7G 6.5G 21% /usr /dev/hda7 26G 1.7G 23G 7% /var -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:35:52 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:35:52 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <006a01c36cae$73e45900$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <006a01c36cae$73e45900$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <200308271135.52449.fraser@wehave.net> On August 27, 2003 11:17 am, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > I am not sure what is causing this problem, when I erased a bunch of log > and temp files stored under / I did manage to free up some space. If I You've freed up 258 MB and you now have a relatively lean / of 95 MB. > was to add another hard drive, would it be a problem to get it working > with the RAID5 the other drives are on? I would rather take some free > space (if possible) from somewhere else and add it to /. You mean by resizing partitions ... not something I like to play with if the system is important (or even if it isn't). As someone else already suggested you could link /tmp to /var/tmp, I guess the caveat with that is if you ever need to boot with only / then you'd have no /tmp but I doubt that's a big issue. I don't understand why you still need more space on / though ... the only significant stuff in / (off the top of my head) are core system librares, kernel modules, essential utilities (mount/ps/some shells/etc.). No matter how many security upgrades you apply, you should still have lots of space. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:35:31 2003 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:35:31 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <3F4CC826.1040901-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw@public.gmane.org> References: <005d01c36caa$d16abfa0$6401a8c0@main> <3F4CC826.1040901@codemonkeys.org> Message-ID: <3F4CCFC3.6010802@alteeve.com> For the moment, it may be the only way some can post to the list. I know that if I try to author a fresh thread, my message disappears. For some reason, only replies are getting through. Madison Emir wrote: > On 27/08/2003 10:51, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > >> Help! My system seems to have run out of space on /dev/hda6 and it >> causing lots and lots of problems. Everything on the server is set up as >> RAID5 (Values shown below are 1/3 of system space). How can I shrink >> /dev/md0 and increase the size of hda6, or some other suggestions to get >> this working? Any suggestions would be really appreciated. I am running >> RH7.3 > > > Start by opening a new thread and not replying to an unrelated message > that messes up the thread view. Perhaps then someone who's not ignoring > this thread (Konqueror and Yahoo Groups) will see your message and > attempt to help you. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 15:48:03 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:48:03 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <200308271135.52449.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308271135.52449.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: <007001c36cb2$af432ea0$6401a8c0@main> > I don't understand why you still need more space on / though ... the only > significant stuff in / (off the top of my head) are core system librares, > kernel modules, essential utilities (mount/ps/some shells/etc.). No > matter > how many security upgrades you apply, you should still have lots of space. I am just concerned about running out of space again and having all my programs go down (as was the case of my web mail and PHP). If it's not possible to increase the size, its not a big deal, Ill just have to keep an eye on the size of /. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 16:05:44 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > > > > du -shx /* > > > > Find out what is eating that much space on / > > > > Given /var, /home and /usr are seperate, maybe /root has been a messy > > user. :) > > > > Or /tmp is too busy and should be mounted elsewhere. > > > > Lennart Sorensen a periodic removal of "core" files helps too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 16:07:59 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 27 Aug 2003 12:07:59 -0400 Subject: ["Steve LeBoutillier" ] e-Mail & Rapid Application development platform for Linux Message-ID: Hi everyone, Anyone think that we should take Steve up on his offer for a talk on Lotus Domino? For NewTLUG, TLUG or HLUG? And don't flame him if you aren't interested ;) -------------- next part -------------- Subject: Topics Topics: e-Mail & Rapid Application development platform for Linux Re: e-Mail & Rapid Application development platform for Linux -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Steve LeBoutillier" Subject: e-Mail & Rapid Application development platform for Linux Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:52:24 -0400 Size: 1454 URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Steve LeBoutillier" Subject: Re: e-Mail & Rapid Application development platform for Linux Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:40:04 -0400 Size: 3201 URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 16:12:27 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: 27 Aug 2003 12:12:27 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <006e01c36cb0$5cb733e0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <006e01c36cb0$5cb733e0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <1062000747.3985.7.camel@yoda> On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 11:31, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Youre right, I cant see how the numbers add up. All I deleted was two > unneeded files in / and a bunch of old log files... > > This is what I get now: > > [root at root]# du -sh * > 1.1M Desktop > 31k Mail > 27k PLSK.00015231.0000.sh > 4.0k anaconda-ks.cfg > 727k easypsa > 5.3M image > 2.0k index.html > 22k install.log > 0 install.log.syslog > 3.0k mail > 1.0k nsmail > > > [root at root]# df -h > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda6 372M 95M 258M 27% / > /dev/hda1 45M 8.7M 34M 21% /boot > /dev/md0 147G 9.3G 130G 7% /home > none 283M 0 282M 0% /dev/shm > /dev/hda3 8.6G 1.7G 6.5G 21% /usr > /dev/hda7 26G 1.7G 23G 7% /var Well, it looks like one of those "unneeded files" may have been the culprit. When you get a chance, run e2fsck... something tells me not all is right with your FS, and it doesn't hurt to check. Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Reminds me of my safari in Africa. Somebody forgot the corkscrew and for several days we had to live on nothing but food and water. -- W. C. Fields ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 16:23:59 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:23:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: http:--www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81- (fwd) Message-ID: I was looking for the Ontario government law which deals with Deadstock Disposal, and found to my dismay that the government of Ontario provides laws in a format readable only to Microsoft users. Should I not complain? (see August 27 ed of Toronto Star:) 'Deadstock' focus of meat probe Health ministry memo sheds light on investigation Illegal to process animals that die before slaughter RICHARD BRENNAN AND ROBERT CRIBB STAFF REPORTERS -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 16:26:17 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:26:17 -0400 Subject: ["Steve LeBoutillier" ] e-Mail & Rapid Application development platform for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F4CDBA9.1060708@codemonkeys.org> On 27/08/2003 12:07, Matthew Rice wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Anyone think that we should take Steve up on his offer for a talk on Lotus > Domino? For NewTLUG, TLUG or HLUG? > > And don't flame him if you aren't interested ;) I personally think we should take him up on this offer, Lotus (especially on Linux) is a topic not great many people know a lot about and yet, IIRC, Lotus has more users worldwide than MS Exchange (in terms of actual mailboxes). TLUG seems a better forum for such a talk than NewTLUG. -- Emir. "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 16:27:34 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:27:34 -0400 Subject: ["Steve LeBoutillier" ] e-Mail & Rapid Application development platform for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200308271227.34828.fraser@wehave.net> On August 27, 2003 12:07 pm, Matthew Rice wrote: > Anyone think that we should take Steve up on his offer for a talk on Lotus > Domino? For NewTLUG, TLUG or HLUG? I wouldn't mind seeing what it can do since I've never used notes. Besides a quick overview of features what would the demo consist of ... a real program example, lines of code, discussion of development time, cost of all components used in the application??? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 16:36:32 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:36:32 -0400 Subject: http:--www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81- (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F4CDE10.9090101@codemonkeys.org> On 27/08/2003 12:23, Max Blanco wrote: > I was looking for the Ontario government law which deals with Deadstock > Disposal, and found to my dismay that the government of Ontario > provides laws in a format readable only to Microsoft users. > > Should I not complain? Perhaps we should start a petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/) and try to get other Ontario LUGs involved. Our taxes paid for those laws, their enforcement, software used to publish them, and the site they're hosted on. I reckon we have a say in the matter. -- Emir. "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 16:59:11 2003 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: http:--www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81- (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Max Blanco wrote: > I was looking for the Ontario government law which deals with Deadstock > Disposal, and found to my dismay that the government of Ontario > provides laws in a format readable only to Microsoft users. The case for complaint is weakened somewhat -- although only somewhat -- by the fact that non-Microsoft software like Open Office can generally do a fair job of reading Microsoft flies. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 16:59:39 2003 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: http:--www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81- (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wrote: > do a fair job of reading Microsoft flies. Oops, for "flies" read "files"... :-) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 17:26:38 2003 From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:26:38 -0400 Subject: http:--www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81- (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F4CE9CE.8060704@codemonkeys.org> On 27/08/2003 12:59, Henry Spencer wrote: > I wrote: > >>do a fair job of reading Microsoft flies. > > > Oops, for "flies" read "files"... :-) Freudian slip, if there ever was one ;) -- Emir. "The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery, and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices." -- Andrew Orlowski -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 17:47:23 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:47:23 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: European Linuxers protest law on software patents Message-ID: http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/BigDemo27aug -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 17:49:36 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:49:36 -0400 Subject: http:--www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81- (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200308271349.36320.fraser@wehave.net> On August 27, 2003 12:23 pm, Max Blanco wrote: > I was looking for the Ontario government law which deals with Deadstock > Disposal, and found to my dismay that the government of Ontario > provides laws in a format readable only to Microsoft users. Not sure if we're looking at the same thing, I can read this just fine: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90d03_e.htm A .doc is also provided (see http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/download2_E.asp?lang=en&docFile=Statutes/English/90d03_e.doc). Although .doc might be a Microsoft format it generally isn't that difficult for non-Microsoft users to read. I've been able to read .doc's on Linux for a long time. As far as I remember there was a free version of Wordperfect that could read it just fine (at that time) probably over 6 years ago, it might have run under iBCS but it still ran. Currently you have loads of options to choose from, these are the ones that I have installed: - abiword - kword - openoffice.org - strings (ok not too practival) - wv (converts directly to pdf, dvi, html, and more) If the .doc is what you find objectionable what is your preference, pdf? If they went with pdf then they would almost certainly run out and pay the big bucks to Adobe for PDF generation software, we might prefer Adobe over MS but what's the win. When 90% of us (if you believe the statistics) have wordview and the rest of us have options as I mentioned above I don't see a problem ... especially since they are providing html (I assume that you didn't notice it). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:15:42 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <007001c36cb2$af432ea0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <007001c36cb2$af432ea0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > I am just concerned about running out of space again and having all my > programs go down (as was the case of my web mail and PHP). If it's not > possible to increase the size, its not a big deal, Ill just have to keep > an eye on the size of /. If you link /tmp to /var/tmp (see my last mail for details) then new files in /tmp will appear in /var/tmp (where you have lots of space). The risk of / filling again would be greatly reduced. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:28:47 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:28:47 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <20030827150154.GH1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <20030827182847.GI1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 11:10:39AM -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > I erased most of the log files I did not need, and cleaned up some files > which were sitting in root as well. When I type du -shx /* this is what > I got: [root at root]# du -shx /* > 5.8M /bin > 4.7M /boot > 270k /dev > 5.1M /etc So which entry contained that 300MB? /root? /tmp? That obviously can't be the entire list > Is there a way to resize my partition? parted might (but is pretty hard to use/understand). Partition magic version 6 and above can resize them too I believe. Neither is going to touch the MD drive. Resizing MD drives is much trickier. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:29:24 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:29:24 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <1061997766.3985.3.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org> References: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0@main> <1061997766.3985.3.camel@yoda> Message-ID: <20030827182924.GJ1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 11:22:46AM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote: > Something doesn't add up. In your previous message, df showed 354M/372M > available on / but here it seems like only 15.9M is used. Did you free > 338.1M of logs? If so, then what's the problem? > > I've been told fips is the program to use for resizing partitions, but I > haven't used it yet. Be warned; messing with partitions is a great way > to lose data. Fips is for FAT partitions only. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:30:46 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:30:46 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <006e01c36cb0$5cb733e0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <1061997766.3985.3.camel@yoda> <006e01c36cb0$5cb733e0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <20030827183045.GK1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 11:31:30AM -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Youre right, I cant see how the numbers add up. All I deleted was two > unneeded files in / and a bunch of old log files... One of those files in / may have been huge, or those logs added up to a lot. > This is what I get now: > > [root at root]# du -sh * > 1.1M Desktop > 31k Mail > 27k PLSK.00015231.0000.sh > 4.0k anaconda-ks.cfg > 727k easypsa > 5.3M image > 2.0k index.html > 22k install.log > 0 install.log.syslog > 3.0k mail > 1.0k nsmail That is in /root not / Do du -shx /* > [root at root]# df -h > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda6 372M 95M 258M 27% / Looks better at least. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:33:07 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:33:07 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <006a01c36cae$73e45900$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <200308271107.11977.fraser@wehave.net> <006a01c36cae$73e45900$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <20030827183307.GL1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 11:17:45AM -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > I am not sure what is causing this problem, when I erased a bunch of log > and temp files stored under / I did manage to free up some space. If I > was to add another hard drive, would it be a problem to get it working > with the RAID5 the other drives are on? I would rather take some free > space (if possible) from somewhere else and add it to /. > > Sid > > > [root at root]# df -h > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > /dev/hda6 372M 95M 258M 27% / > /dev/hda1 45M 8.7M 34M 21% /boot > /dev/md0 147G 9.3G 130G 7% /home > none 283M 0 282M 0% /dev/shm > /dev/hda3 8.6G 1.7G 6.5G 21% /usr > /dev/hda7 26G 1.7G 23G 7% /var Assuming hda6 and hda7 are sequential, partition magic should be able to expand / and shrink /var. Not sure which other tool can, so unless you own partition magic 6 or higher... Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:42:38 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: 27 Aug 2003 14:42:38 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <20030827182924.GJ1405-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0@main> <1061997766.3985.3.camel@yoda> <20030827182924.GJ1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1062009758.3985.10.camel@yoda> On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 14:29, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Fips is for FAT partitions only. > > Lennart Sorensen Shoot... I was hoping to use that to squeeze the XP partition on my laptop to fit in Gentoo. Any ideas as to what I can use instead? I really don't want to have to go through re-installing XP, not to mention everything else I have. Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Reminds me of my safari in Africa. Somebody forgot the corkscrew and for several days we had to live on nothing but food and water. -- W. C. Fields ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:41:45 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:41:45 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <1062009758.3985.10.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org> References: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0@main> <1061997766.3985.3.camel@yoda> <20030827182924.GJ1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1062009758.3985.10.camel@yoda> Message-ID: <20030827184145.GN1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:42:38PM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote: > Shoot... I was hoping to use that to squeeze the XP partition on my > laptop to fit in Gentoo. Any ideas as to what I can use instead? I > really don't want to have to go through re-installing XP, not to mention > everything else I have. Unfortunately the best I have used is partitoin magic, which well is commercial, costs some $60 or 70, but really does work well and is worth having around for just such stupid emergencies (or bad planning on the part of the original installer). I don't think anything else will resize NTFS at this time. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:23:50 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:23:50 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <20030827183307.GL1405-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200308271107.11977.fraser@wehave.net> <006a01c36cae$73e45900$6401a8c0@main> <20030827183307.GL1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1062008630.7179.5554.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 14:33, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Not sure which other tool can, so unless you own partition magic 6 or > higher... Doesn't 'parted' have (experimental) support for partition resize. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:45:31 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: http:--www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81- (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200308271349.36320.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308271349.36320.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On August 27, 2003 12:23 pm, Max Blanco wrote: > > http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90d03_e.htm > I didn't notice... > A .doc is also provided (see > http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/download2_E.asp?lang=en&docFile=Statutes/English/90d03_e.doc). > [snip] > Currently you have loads of options to choose from, these are the > ones that I have installed: > I prefer antiword myself, but it doesn't do tables. But that's not my point. > If the .doc is what you find objectionable what is your preference, pdf? [snip] > ... especially since they are providing html (I assume that you didn't notice > it). > You corrected me, and thanks for that. I find both .doc and .pdf objectionable, for the reason that they mask behind machine language what ought to be plain text. I suppose ascii-->english translators to be universal. I don't suppose doc-->english to be universal, nor pdf-->english. html-->english is my next choice, which I hadn't seen. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:48:19 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:48:19 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <20030827184145.GN1405-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0@main> <1062009758.3985.10.camel@yoda> <20030827184145.GN1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200308271448.19884.fraser@wehave.net> On August 27, 2003 02:41 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Unfortunately the best I have used is partitoin magic, which well is > commercial, costs some $60 or 70, but really does work well and is worth > having around for just such stupid emergencies (or bad planning on the > part of the original installer). I don't think anything else will > resize NTFS at this time. There's a Linux program called ntfsresize, supposedly works although I've never had a reason to try it. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 18:54:34 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:54:34 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <1062008630.7179.5554.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <200308271107.11977.fraser@wehave.net> <006a01c36cae$73e45900$6401a8c0@main> <20030827183307.GL1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1062008630.7179.5554.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20030827185434.GO1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:23:50PM -0400, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > Doesn't 'parted' have (experimental) support for partition resize. Yes, with many limitations, and not the simplest user interface I have worked with. Not sure about NTFS or anything else. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 19:48:10 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: http:--www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81- (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200308271349.36320.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308271349.36320.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote: > - strings (ok not too practival) > - wv (converts directly to pdf, dvi, html, and more) For another good command line tool to read MS-Word docs, try antiword. Avaiable in Debian Woody and probably lots of other distros. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 20:04:57 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <20030827184145.GN1405-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0@main> <1061997766.3985.3.camel@yoda> <20030827182924.GJ1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1062009758.3985.10.camel@yoda> <20030827184145.GN1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <63979.64.228.103.185.1062014697.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:42:38PM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote: >> Shoot... I was hoping to use that to squeeze the XP partition on my >> laptop to fit in Gentoo. Any ideas as to what I can use instead? I >> really don't want to have to go through re-installing XP, not to >> mention everything else I have. > > Unfortunately the best I have used is partitoin magic, which well is > commercial, costs some $60 or 70, but really does work well and is worth > having around for just such stupid emergencies (or bad planning on the > part of the original installer). I don't think anything else will > resize NTFS at this time. Yup.. its called BootitNG, and you can get it here http://www.bootitng.com It does a lot of things, but one of them is resize NTFS (and other) partitions. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 21:30:23 2003 From: linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org (Ian Goldberg) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:30:23 -0400 Subject: Windows refund experience? Message-ID: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190@brandeis.paip.net> The new Dell laptop just arrived by Purolator. I've got the Debian install CD at the ready, but before I do anything, does anyone have (local, or at least Canadian) experience with trying to get a Windows refund from a manufacturer? I notice I can't even see the EULA anywhere in the box; I suspect it's likely to be in the shrinkwrapped Windows XP Home pamphlet. [Though there's no notice (at least on the outside) of the form "removing shrinkwrap implies agreement".] I certainly don't intend to turn the machine on without it booting straight into Linux. Any other hints? Thanks, - Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 21:38:00 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:38:00 -0400 Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190-1FONPbNgvBvHguoPZneghl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: <20030827213800.GQ1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 05:30:23PM -0400, Ian Goldberg wrote: > The new Dell laptop just arrived by Purolator. I've got the Debian > install CD at the ready, but before I do anything, does anyone have > (local, or at least Canadian) experience with trying to get a Windows > refund from a manufacturer? I suspect Dell is going to be VERY hard to get anything out of, given they probably have their own agreement with MS, and don't even use the standard install disk. Most likely they don't even give you media. > I notice I can't even see the EULA anywhere in the box; I suspect it's > likely to be in the shrinkwrapped Windows XP Home pamphlet. [Though > there's no notice (at least on the outside) of the form "removing > shrinkwrap implies agreement".] > > I certainly don't intend to turn the machine on without it booting > straight into Linux. Any other hints? Simplest is to just let it blow up windows and forget it ever existed, when you boot Linux. Just my guess on things. Len -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 21:42:06 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 27 Aug 2003 17:42:06 -0400 Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190-1FONPbNgvBvHguoPZneghl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: Ian Goldberg writes: > I certainly don't intend to turn the machine on without it booting > straight into Linux. Any other hints? There was a great article on a guy's experience _successfully_ getting a full refund from a hardware vendor ($199US) for XP. He had to take them to small claims court, though. How far do you want to take it? Hear's the story on it: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7040 Happy reading. -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 21:44:49 2003 From: linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org (Ian Goldberg) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:44:49 -0400 Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: <20030827213800.GQ1405-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190@brandeis.paip.net> <20030827213800.GQ1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030827214449.GA21348@paip.net> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 05:38:00PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 05:30:23PM -0400, Ian Goldberg wrote: > > The new Dell laptop just arrived by Purolator. I've got the Debian > > install CD at the ready, but before I do anything, does anyone have > > (local, or at least Canadian) experience with trying to get a Windows > > refund from a manufacturer? > > I suspect Dell is going to be VERY hard to get anything out of, given > they probably have their own agreement with MS, and don't even use the > standard install disk. Most likely they don't even give you media. They in fact give a "Re-installation CD", including SP1. They've got to present you with a EULA at *some* point, though. [Possibly after bootup.] > Simplest is to just let it blow up windows and forget it ever existed, > when you boot Linux. But then we don't get to impress on Dell that they really should offer to sell machines without the "Microsoft tax" included automatically. I don't really like that I'm enriching Microsoft just because I bought some hardware. - Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 21:46:14 2003 From: linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org (Ian Goldberg) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:46:14 -0400 Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: References: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: <20030827214614.GB21348@paip.net> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 05:42:06PM -0400, Matthew Rice wrote: > Ian Goldberg writes: > > I certainly don't intend to turn the machine on without it booting > > straight into Linux. Any other hints? > > There was a great article on a guy's experience _successfully_ getting a > full refund from a hardware vendor ($199US) for XP. > > He had to take them to small claims court, though. How far do you want to > take it? Hear's the story on it: > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7040 > > Happy reading. Yup, I saw that. I wanted to know if anyone local had similar _Canadian_ court experience. - Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 21:56:08 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 27 Aug 2003, Matthew Rice wrote: > Ian Goldberg writes: > > I certainly don't intend to turn the machine on without it booting > > straight into Linux. Any other hints? > > There was a great article on a guy's experience _successfully_ getting a > full refund from a hardware vendor ($199US) for XP. > > He had to take them to small claims court, though. How far do you want to > take it? Hear's the story on it: > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7040 > If you read the story carefully, he got the court to rule in his favour. The collection of the $199 bucks is quite another story. If the company refuses to pay, he has to go to a bailiff or back to court. This is my understanding, but makes it no less of an overdue and joyful event. Perhaps CLIC will support Mr. Goldberg's endeavour? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 21:54:41 2003 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:54:41 -0400 Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190-1FONPbNgvBvHguoPZneghl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: <200308271754.43033.marc@lijour.net> Le 27 Ao??t 2003 17:30, Ian Goldberg a ??crit : > The new Dell laptop just arrived by Purolator. I've got the Debian > install CD at the ready, but before I do anything, does anyone have > (local, or at least Canadian) experience with trying to get a Windows > refund from a manufacturer? > > I notice I can't even see the EULA anywhere in the box; I suspect it's > likely to be in the shrinkwrapped Windows XP Home pamphlet. [Though > there's no notice (at least on the outside) of the form "removing > shrinkwrap implies agreement".] > > I certainly don't intend to turn the machine on without it booting > straight into Linux. Any other hints? Hi Ian, I have a Dell Inspiron 2500 about 2 years old now. I read that if you want a refund you must NOT open the plastic of the holy Windows software and not run the stuff. (I'm not sure though, it's old story, and no I did not take care of all that at the time, and I considered it lost for me). The EULA comes in the disk, the first time you run your laptop you are shown a bunch of screens. Win comes in DELL CD. The problem I had is to run my win2000 inside vmware. I complained about DELL because I could not install my windows (I paid for) in vmware, their Dell-M$-OEM software detects that the BIOS is not the same and refuses to install... No response from Dell until now (after 2 years). My advise now: read success stories, do your best, and keep us posted! Good luck, Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 22:05:12 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: <20030827213800.GQ1405-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20030827213800.GQ1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I notice I can't even see the EULA anywhere in the box; I suspect it's > > likely to be in the shrinkwrapped Windows XP Home pamphlet. [Though > > there's no notice (at least on the outside) of the form "removing > > shrinkwrap implies agreement".] > > > > I certainly don't intend to turn the machine on without it booting > > straight into Linux. Any other hints? > > Simplest is to just let it blow up windows and forget it ever existed, > when you boot Linux. > > Just my guess on things. > > Len IANAL but: You may wish to do a *floppy* install (redhat?/debian/slackware) so as to guard your rights if you choose to pursue legal action. See Prof Lejour's post and the linuxjournal article referred to by Matt. OTOH, return to sender and purchase a used machine is always an option. 8) max. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 22:06:19 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 27 Aug 2003 18:06:19 -0400 Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Max Blanco writes: > Perhaps CLIC will support Mr. Goldberg's endeavour? Way ahead of you. I've already offered to have CLUE promote and help him out. I'd do it myself but I needed the XP on my Dell laptop for work [just got it last month]. -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 22:31:34 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:31:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: http:--www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81- (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200308271349.36320.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308271349.36320.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Not sure if we're looking at the same thing, I can read this just fine: > > http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90d03_e.htm > > A .doc is also provided (see > http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/download2_E.asp?lang=en&docFile=Statutes/English/90d03_e.doc). Arrgh! I realize my mistake. Sorry. The "download" is a doc but there are two links to every search item. I had failed to check the other link, which is an .html file. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 23:00:42 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190-1FONPbNgvBvHguoPZneghl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: <17886.216.138.194.32.1062025242.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > The new Dell laptop just arrived by Purolator. I've got the Debian > install CD at the ready, but before I do anything, does anyone have > (local, or at least Canadian) experience with trying to get a Windows > refund from a manufacturer? Yeah, you contact M$ Canada and they tell you to contact the OEM. Contact the OEM and they tell you to contact M$ Canada. Tell them to stick it. the OEM is responsible, and M$ makes this crystal clear. Now you have a reason to build rather than buy off the shelf :) > I notice I can't even see the EULA anywhere in the box; I suspect it's > likely to be in the shrinkwrapped Windows XP Home pamphlet. [Though > there's no notice (at least on the outside) of the form "removing > shrinkwrap implies agreement".] > > I certainly don't intend to turn the machine on without it booting > straight into Linux. Any other hints? The boot loader can take care of this. You can get away without allowing M$ onto the botloader config so it doesn't show at all. -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 23:19:24 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 27 Aug 2003, Matthew Rice wrote: > Max Blanco writes: > > Perhaps CLIC will support Mr. Goldberg's endeavour? > > Way ahead of you. I've already offered to have CLUE promote and help him > out. I'd do it myself but I needed the XP on my Dell laptop for work [just > got it last month]. > > Hang on a second: doesn't Dell give you a negative-billing option? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 03:13:46 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190-1FONPbNgvBvHguoPZneghl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Ian Goldberg wrote: > The new Dell laptop just arrived by Purolator. I've got the Debian > install CD at the ready, but before I do anything, does anyone have > (local, or at least Canadian) experience with trying to get a Windows > refund from a manufacturer? Check this out... http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html Maybe something like this may be possible in Canada. As you see it took Geoff quite sometime to get the refund though. Not sure if you'd want the hassle :) I've actually met Geoff Bennett (when he visited my the local user group in Brisbane, Australia). Very cool guy :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 11:45:06 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Ian Goldberg wrote: > > > The new Dell laptop just arrived by Purolator. I've got the Debian > > install CD at the ready, but before I do anything, does anyone have > > (local, or at least Canadian) experience with trying to get a Windows > > refund from a manufacturer? > > Check this out... > > http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html > (from netcraft.com.au:) > 3. At the time of purchase did he notify the vendor that he did > not want the standard MS operating system? My vendor was aware before I purchased the computer that I did not want the standard MS operating system. My vendor had already informed me that it was not possible to have Windows removed from the computer before purchasing it. > 5. Mr Bennett states that he "refrained from using the > software, and .... completely removed it without creating > any backup". How was this accomplished? When was the > Operating System deleted? I removed the operating system by connecting the floppy disk drive, inserting a Red Hat Linux boot floppy, turning on the computer, deleting all partitions on the hard disk, and installing Linux. I did this on the same day I received the computer. If there's anyone else wanting to do a similar thing, I think that the important things are: * Check the license agreement. Look for something like ``If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, PC Manufacturer and Microsoft are unwilling to license the SOFTWARE PRODUCT to you. In such event, you may not use or copy the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, and you should promptly contact PC Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused products(s) for a refund.'' * As the first thing you do with the computer after you purchase it, boot from a floppy and delete the Windows partition. If you boot Windows even once, you will probably be considered to have accepted the agreement. To prevent any arguments later, it would be best to delete the partition while you are still in the store, with the salesperson watching. * Contact your manufacturer immediately, and say that you do not agree to the terms of the EULA and would like instructions on return of the unused Microsoft Software for a refund. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 12:21:26 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: no negative billing here! Dell - Dimension XPS Desktop (fwd) Message-ID: In addition to the utter lack of consideration evident from the html at dell.ca (Dell does not use "alt" tags in its html code... tsk tsk! www.htmlhelp.com/design/accesibility), this Dell Dimension XPS html code did NOT allow me to delete the microsoft OS. It gave me ONLY two options: XP Home or XP Professional. (Scroll down and see.) No wonder I don't use this "service". I wonder if CLIC will recommend against buying from dell.ca for the reasons outlined above? (Aren't advocacy groups great?) ---------------------------------------------- ?? 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Warranty, 3 Yr In-Home/On-Site Service, 24x7 Phone Hardware Tech Support, 365 days a year (_) 4 Yr Ltd. Warranty, 4 Yr In-Home/On-Site Service, 24x7 Phone Hardware Tech Support, 365 days a year (_) 5 Yr Ltd. Warranty, 5 Yr In-Home/On-Site Service, 24x7 Phone Hardware Tech Support, 365 days a year DELL RECOMMENDS [spacer.gif] [spacer.gif] [spacer.gif] [spacer.gif] [stlink_tl.gif] [stlink_te.gif] [stlink_tr.gif] [stlink_le.gif] [content_action.gif] Continue [stlink_re.gif] [stlink_bl.gif] [stlink_be.gif] [stlink_br.gif] [spacer.gif] ______________________________________________________________________ Advertised configurations and limited time offers only available to customers in Canada. All purchases subject to your Customer Agreement or Dell's standard terms of sale, Dell's limited warranty terms and the applicable Dell or third party service agreement. Copies available on request or at www.dell.ca. All prices, specifications and promotional offers are subject to error, cancellation or change at any time without notice. Remember to back-up your data. Dell is not responsible for lost or corrupt data or software. Dell reserves the right to limit quantities to five (5) systems per customer. Dell cannot be responsible for errors in typography or photography. [spacer.gif] [spacer.gif] For Canadian customers only/ Pour les clients canadiens seulement Copyright 1999-2003 Dell Inc. Privacy : Cookies Terms and Conditions of Sale : Terms of Use: Limited Warranty Terms & Service Contracts -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 27 14:32:39 2003 From: fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org (bob findlay) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:32:39 -0400 Subject: Konqueror and Yahoo Groups In-Reply-To: <200308271019.11328.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20030827141312.04853B5C54@outbox.allstream.net> <200308271019.11328.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: <20030828124814.51748B8144@outbox.allstream.net> I tried all those things. It is like the Yahoo Groups webserver refuses to send out the HTML page to Konqueror in some circumstances. Wierd. On August 27, 2003 10:19 am, you wrote: > On August 27, 2003 10:17 am, bob findlay wrote: > > I seem to be able to sign in OK from the main page, but when I try to > > reach any of my groups I am rewarded with a blank screen. > > > > I've experimented with the View mode (ie. changing it to KMozilla) and I > > can sometimes get my group page to render but the links reward me with > > blank pages. When I ask to view the source of those blank pages I get a > > blank editor window. > > A couple of wild guesses that may be obvious ... > > Make sure that Konqueror is configured to allow cookies, java and > javascript ... yahoo might be using one of those. > > If that is not the problem try changing your browser identification to > pretend that Konqueror is IE or Netscape, I have to do that with PC banking > before they'll let me bank. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 13:14:23 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Konqueror and Yahoo Groups In-Reply-To: <20030828124814.51748B8144-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20030828124814.51748B8144@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, bob findlay wrote: > I tried all those things. It is like the Yahoo Groups webserver refuses to > send out the HTML page to Konqueror in some circumstances. Wierd. > You can patch this type of thing up (if it's the type of problem I interpret you as writing) by spoofing IE or Mozilla. Simply find the header c code, and spoof it. A very useful program called "snarf" can show you how to spoof. Check snarf-2.0.9/http.c, and options.c ("-m" spoofs IE) for how to. Remember to add that to the konqeueror tree, if you can get access. Or maybe kq already has this feature? Check the command line options. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 13:37:51 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:37:51 -0400 Subject: Konqueror and Yahoo Groups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200308280937.51485.fraser@wehave.net> On Thursday 28 August 2003 09:14, Max Blanco wrote: > A very useful program called "snarf" can show you how to spoof. > Check snarf-2.0.9/http.c, and options.c ("-m" spoofs IE) for how to. > Remember to add that to the konqeueror tree, if you can get access. > Or maybe kq already has this feature? Check the command line options. It does. At home, under Konq's Tools menu I have "Change browser identification" which provides a bunch of preset browser IDs. If you don't have that menu item you can customize the toolbars to add it. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 13:36:03 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Drive Imaging with dd Message-ID: <32838.64.7.157.236.1062077763.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> Hey everyone, I'm trying to image the XP partition on my laptop using Knoppix and an external 1394 drive. I've gotten both drives up and running, and checked that both drives are running at full speed using hdparm: root at ttyp0[knoppix]# hdparm -t /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 3.19 seconds = 20.06 MB/sec root at ttyp0[knoppix]# hdparm -t /dev/sda /dev/sda: Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 2.87 seconds = 22.30 MB/sec root at ttyp0[knoppix]# hdparm /dev/hda /dev/hda: multcount = 16 (on) I/O support = 1 (32-bit) unmaskirq = 1 (on) using_dma = 1 (on) keepsettings = 0 (off) nowerr = 0 (off) readonly = 0 (off) readahead = 8 (on) geometry = 4864/255/63, sectors = 78140160, start = 0 busstate = 1 (on) When just dump the files directly from one drive to another, the performance is spot on: root at ttyp0[test]# dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1 2260624+0 records in 2260624+0 records out 1157439488 bytes transferred in 64.225880 seconds (18021388 bytes/sec) But the moment I stick gzip in the middle, is slows down by at least half: root at ttyp0[test]# dd if=/dev/hda1 | gzip -1 > shuttlepod.hda1.gz 2563337+0 records in 2563336+0 records out 1312428032 bytes transferred in 203.288912 seconds (6455975 bytes/sec) Any ideas on how to speed this up? I've played with block size and compression levels, but I can't seem to do better than 10M/s. BTW: Anyone looking for motivation, my company is mainly a microsoft shop at the moment. Ghost doesn't support 1394, and our laptops have USB1.1 only. Imaging used to be a pain (e.g. > 3 hours). Not only would efficient imaging allow me to install linux on my laptop, it would prove a valuable tool. Cheers, and thanks in advance, Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- The highest use of capital is not to make more money, but to make money do more for the betterment of life. -- Henry Ford (1863 - 1947) ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:10:36 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:10:36 -0500 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <63979.64.228.103.185.1062014697.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0@main> <1061997766.3985.3.camel@yoda> <20030827182924.GJ1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1062009758.3985.10.camel@yoda> <20030827184145.GN1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <63979.64.228.103.185.1062014697.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: <20030828151036.2094D752C8@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:04:57 -0400 (EDT), "Keith Mastin" said: > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 02:42:38PM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote: > >> Shoot... I was hoping to use that to squeeze the XP partition on my > >> laptop to fit in Gentoo. Any ideas as to what I can use instead? I > >> really don't want to have to go through re-installing XP, not to > >> mention everything else I have. > > > > Unfortunately the best I have used is partitoin magic, which well is > > commercial, costs some $60 or 70, but really does work well and is worth > > having around for just such stupid emergencies (or bad planning on the > > part of the original installer). I don't think anything else will > > resize NTFS at this time. > > Yup.. its called BootitNG, and you can get it here > http://www.bootitng.com > > It does a lot of things, but one of them is resize NTFS (and other) > partitions. Yeah, try out this BootitNG, which looks pretty good, or burn a copy of Knoppix and you'll have disk related utilities such as: ntfsresize (as already mentioned - I think the fact that it's on Knoppix is a vote of confidence for this program) qtparted (graphical parted - no console version for some reason) partimage and partimaged - partition imaging client and server install-mbr sfdisk cfdisk Logical Volume Manager tools etc. etc. I own Partition Magic 7 but hardly use it anymore. Only supports ext2 and I'm not spending $50 US to ugrade to PQM 8 to get ext3 but not ReiserFS support. Also, some people report problems with Linux partitions made by PQM. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:18:59 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 28 Aug 2003 11:18:59 -0400 Subject: no negative billing here! Dell - Dimension XPS Desktop (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Max Blanco writes: > I wonder if CLIC will recommend against buying from dell.ca for the > reasons outlined above? (Aren't advocacy groups great?) Only when there's enough volunteers to promote these actions ;) -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:43:32 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:43:32 -0400 Subject: Help! Disk space error In-Reply-To: <20030828151036.2094D752C8-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <006401c36cad$82fa4e50$6401a8c0@main> <1061997766.3985.3.camel@yoda> <20030827182924.GJ1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1062009758.3985.10.camel@yoda> <20030827184145.GN1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <63979.64.228.103.185.1062014697.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <20030828151036.2094D752C8@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20030828154332.GA21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 10:10:36AM -0500, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > Yeah, try out this BootitNG, which looks pretty good, or burn a copy of > Knoppix and you'll have disk related utilities such as: > ntfsresize (as already mentioned - I think the fact that it's on Knoppix > is a vote of confidence for this program) > qtparted (graphical parted - no console version for some reason) > partimage and partimaged - partition imaging client and server > install-mbr > sfdisk > cfdisk > Logical Volume Manager tools > etc. > etc. > > I own Partition Magic 7 but hardly use it anymore. Only supports ext2 > and I'm not spending $50 US to ugrade to PQM 8 to get ext3 but not > ReiserFS support. Also, some people report problems with Linux > partitions made by PQM. I haven't seen any, but there may be. I don't create partitions with partition magic. Using tune2fs to change ext3 to ext2 before resizing and back is not that big a deal. But if a free tool will do it too, then that is even better. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:47:28 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:47:28 -0400 Subject: Drive Imaging with dd In-Reply-To: <32838.64.7.157.236.1062077763.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org> References: <32838.64.7.157.236.1062077763.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> Message-ID: <20030828154728.GB21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 09:36:03AM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'm trying to image the XP partition on my laptop using Knoppix and an > external 1394 drive. I've gotten both drives up and running, and checked > that both drives are running at full speed using hdparm: > root at ttyp0[knoppix]# hdparm -t /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 3.19 seconds = 20.06 MB/sec > root at ttyp0[knoppix]# hdparm -t /dev/sda > > /dev/sda: > Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 2.87 seconds = 22.30 MB/sec > root at ttyp0[knoppix]# hdparm /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > multcount = 16 (on) > I/O support = 1 (32-bit) > unmaskirq = 1 (on) > using_dma = 1 (on) > keepsettings = 0 (off) > nowerr = 0 (off) > readonly = 0 (off) > readahead = 8 (on) > geometry = 4864/255/63, sectors = 78140160, start = 0 > busstate = 1 (on) > > > When just dump the files directly from one drive to another, the > performance is spot on: > root at ttyp0[test]# dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1 > 2260624+0 records in > 2260624+0 records out > 1157439488 bytes transferred in 64.225880 seconds (18021388 bytes/sec) > > But the moment I stick gzip in the middle, is slows down by at least half: > > root at ttyp0[test]# dd if=/dev/hda1 | gzip -1 > shuttlepod.hda1.gz > 2563337+0 records in > 2563336+0 records out > 1312428032 bytes transferred in 203.288912 seconds (6455975 bytes/sec) > > Any ideas on how to speed this up? I've played with block size and > compression levels, but I can't seem to do better than 10M/s. > BTW: Anyone looking for motivation, my company is mainly a microsoft shop > at the moment. Ghost doesn't support 1394, and our laptops have USB1.1 > only. Imaging used to be a pain (e.g. > 3 hours). Not only would > efficient imaging allow me to install linux on my laptop, it would prove a > valuable tool. Have you looked at top while running dd with gzip? Might be CPU limited. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 15:50:30 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:50:30 -0400 Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: <20030827214449.GA21348-cOjNTMaGA5U@public.gmane.org> References: <200308272130.h7RLUNcl021190@brandeis.paip.net> <20030827213800.GQ1405@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20030827214449.GA21348@paip.net> Message-ID: <20030828155030.GC21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 05:44:49PM -0400, Ian Goldberg wrote: > They in fact give a "Re-installation CD", including SP1. They've got to > present you with a EULA at *some* point, though. [Possibly after > bootup.] Likely on first boot when you are supposed register/activete and such. > But then we don't get to impress on Dell that they really should offer > to sell machines without the "Microsoft tax" included automatically. I > don't really like that I'm enriching Microsoft just because I bought > some hardware. Well Dell certainly isn't the company to deal with. They seem to sell Only intel hardware and only MS software. They wouldn't want to offend their suppliers and risk loosing their special deals. Their must be someone (other than IBM) that sell laptops without windows. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:09:52 2003 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:09:52 -0400 Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: <20030828155030.GC21637-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20030828155030.GC21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hi, > > Well Dell certainly isn't the company to deal with. They seem to sell > Only intel hardware and only MS software. They wouldn't want to offend > their suppliers and risk loosing their special deals. Their must be > someone (other than IBM) that sell laptops without windows. http://www.emperorlinux.com advertise in Linux Journal and appear to have a special deal with Dell whereby they get windows-less machines. Not sure how the prices match up and whether they ship to Canada, but maybe worth a look? Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:10:00 2003 From: fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org (bob findlay) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:10:00 -0400 Subject: Konqueror and Yahoo Groups In-Reply-To: <200308280937.51485.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308280937.51485.fraser@wehave.net> Message-ID: <20030828161235.E2BC7D2F6@outbox.allstream.net> It does indeed, but none of the obvious candidates I tried seemed to make a difference to the Yahoo Groups server. The weirder part is that if I change the view from KHTML to KMOZILLA I can occasionally get a Yahoo Groups page to render. As I understand what view does, it is just changing the look of the browser interface buttons, icons etc. Why that affects what the Yahoo Groups server is sending is beyond me. As I said in my previous posts the KMOZILLA skin usually only works one layer in. ie. if I click on a link which requires that I fill in a info form the Yahoo Groups server seems to behave as if it never saw the info ... almost like I'm dealing with a browser cache problem ... I tried all the cache settings I could find to no avail. The true Mozilla browser doesn't seem to have any problems with this site. Mozilla doesn't seem to want to participate in simple cut, copy and paste clipboard operations (in KDE anyway) which is why I'd like to be able to use Konqueror. On August 28, 2003 09:37 am, you wrote: > On Thursday 28 August 2003 09:14, Max Blanco wrote: > > A very useful program called "snarf" can show you how to spoof. > > Check snarf-2.0.9/http.c, and options.c ("-m" spoofs IE) for how to. > > Remember to add that to the konqeueror tree, if you can get access. > > Or maybe kq already has this feature? Check the command line options. > > It does. At home, under Konq's Tools menu I have "Change browser > identification" which provides a bunch of preset browser IDs. If you don't > have that menu item you can customize the toolbars to add it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:31:22 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: 28 Aug 2003 12:31:22 -0400 Subject: Drive Imaging with dd In-Reply-To: <20030828154728.GB21637-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <32838.64.7.157.236.1062077763.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> <20030828154728.GB21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1062088282.7489.3.camel@yoda> On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 11:47, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Have you looked at top while running dd with gzip? Might be CPU > limited. > > Lennart Sorensen With gzip set anywhere between -2 and -7 I seem to get around 15-25% idle time, which seems to indicate that there's enough processor time. It does bounce around a lot though, anywhere between 97% to 60% use for gzip. Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- The highest use of capital is not to make more money, but to make money do more for the betterment of life. -- Henry Ford (1863 - 1947) ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:28:57 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: no negative billing here! Dell - Dimension XPS Desktop (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 28 Aug 2003, Matthew Rice wrote: > Max Blanco writes: > > I wonder if CLIC will recommend against buying from dell.ca for the > > reasons outlined above? (Aren't advocacy groups great?) > > Only when there's enough volunteers to promote these actions ;) > > Shouldn't be too hard to set up. Have you got wiki? I'm sure we can come up with a list of under five "checklist" items. Then rate vendors on how they stack up. This is where wiki comes in handy: many hands make short work. Then we can go public... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:37:21 2003 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:37:21 -0400 Subject: Dual-Booting Linux / Starting Threads prob. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F4E2FC1.80206@alteeve.com> Hi all, I have setup dual-boot windows/linux machines many time but now I want to dual/triple boot linux distros (Redhat, Mandrake, Debian) on one machine. How do I avoid conflicts with things like /root, /ver, etc... Has anyone one this before? Thank you!! Madison PS - Yes, this started as a reply to another thread. It would seem that I still can not start a thread. The messages return after a couple of days with this error: The original message was received at Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:50:54 -0400 from apache at localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (reason: 554 : Recipient address rejected: Relay access denied) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to lethe.ss.org.: >>>>>> DATA <<< 421 Error: timeout exceeded ... while talking to ns.ss.org.: >>>>>> RCPT To: <<< 554 : Recipient address rejected: Relay access denied 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable Reporting-MTA: dns; alteeve.com Arrival-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:50:54 -0400 Final-Recipient: RFC822; tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Remote-MTA: DNS; ns.ss.org Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 554 : Recipient address rejected: Relay access denied Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:23:38 -0400 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:58:52 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:58:52 -0400 Subject: Konqueror and Yahoo Groups In-Reply-To: <20030828161235.E2BC7D2F6-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <200308280937.51485.fraser@wehave.net> <20030828161235.E2BC7D2F6@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <200308281258.52248.fraser@wehave.net> On Thursday 28 August 2003 12:10, bob findlay wrote: > The weirder part is that if I change the view from KHTML to KMOZILLA I can > occasionally get a Yahoo Groups page to render. As I understand what > view does, it is just changing the look of the browser interface buttons, I believe that "view mode" kmozilla means that you are using gecko to render the webpage instead of khtml ... gecko is the rendering engine that mozilla and several other projects use. I don't know how far it goes ... perhaps javscript is still handled by KDE libraries and that's where things are falling down. > The true Mozilla browser doesn't seem to have any problems with this site. > Mozilla doesn't seem to want to participate in simple cut, copy and paste > clipboard operations (in KDE anyway) which is why I'd like to be able to > use Konqueror. I would recommend that you make sure you're using the latest version of konqueror (3.1.3), if you are maybe you're just out of luck. I email my bank every few months to remind them that they still haven't fixed their website to work with my browser (luckily for me setting User-Agent is enough), I don't have the time to debug your Yahoo problem completely but if you or someone else did you could always try and approach yahoo with a fix ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:47:58 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:47:58 -0400 Subject: Dual-Booting Linux Message-ID: <1062089277.7167.6507.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 12:37, Madison Kelly wrote: > I have setup dual-boot windows/linux machines many time but now I > want to dual/triple boot linux distros (Redhat, Mandrake, Debian) on one > machine. How do I avoid conflicts with things like /root, /ver, etc... > Has anyone one this before? Thank you!! The only sane thing to do is to have separate / , etc ... unfortunately as few programs are backward/forward compatible this extends to /home because of configuration files and directories (DOTfiles). Cheers, Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:52:03 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:52:03 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] Starting Threads prob. Message-ID: <1062089522.7180.6512.camel@localhost> Hi Madison and others experiencing the posting issue. A good experiment would be posting through gmane . Cheers, Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 17:20:02 2003 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:20:02 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] Starting Threads prob. In-Reply-To: <1062089522.7180.6512.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <1062089522.7180.6512.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <3F4E39C2.6050006@alteeve.com> Where would I go about this, is Gmane a website? (yeah, I'm daft) :). Madison Lloyd D Budd wrote: > Hi Madison and others experiencing the posting issue. A good experiment > would be posting through gmane . > > Cheers, > Lloyd > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 17:10:38 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:10:38 -0400 Subject: Starting Threads prob. In-Reply-To: <3F4E39C2.6050006-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1062089522.7180.6512.camel@localhost> <3F4E39C2.6050006@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1062090637.7167.6526.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 13:20, Madison Kelly wrote: > Where would I go about this, is Gmane a website? (yeah, I'm daft) :). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 17:45:15 2003 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:45:15 -0400 Subject: Test post new thread through Gmane news Message-ID: Test... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 18:24:09 2003 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice) Date: 28 Aug 2003 14:24:09 -0400 Subject: no negative billing here! Dell - Dimension XPS Desktop (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Max Blanco writes: > Shouldn't be too hard to set up. Have you got wiki? > I'm sure we can come up with a list of under five "checklist" items. > Then rate vendors on how they stack up. This is where wiki comes in > handy: many hands make short work. > > Then we can go public... There is one. The CLIC guys are using it. I or Bill could setup another or I could ask them if they want to share it. -- matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 16:12:57 2003 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:12:57 -0400 Subject: Dual-Booting Linux Message-ID: <3F4E2A09.8070702@alteeve.com> Hi all, I have setup dual-boot windows/linux machines many time but now I want to dual/triple boot linux distros (Redhat, Mandrake, Debian) on one machine. How do I avoid conflicts with things like /root, /ver, etc... Has anyone one this before? Thank you!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From inceptionos-99GJ6j3kurcN+BqQ9rBEUg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 19:08:22 2003 From: inceptionos-99GJ6j3kurcN+BqQ9rBEUg at public.gmane.org (Michael Lauzon) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:08:22 -0500 Subject: OT: For Sale: Router (Must Sell ASAP).... References: <3F4CA29D.25544.1F8EBC27@localhost> <20030827180847.A2570@bowmore.i.dmo.ca> <20030827220827.0969c963.bb@L8R.net> <200308272248.34486.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <20030827233931.1f91a6de.bb@L8R.net> <20030828051813.GH6847@magma.ca> <20030828014714.7a7171f0.shad@ascendant.ca> <20030828020936.3be5d444.dle@sympatico.ca> <20030828025549.4dbad803.shad@ascendant.ca> <20030828150404.GL6847@magma.ca> Message-ID: <20030828190822.732FB75469@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> I have the following for sale and am willing to ship, but buyer pays for S&H: > Linksys EtherFast Cable/DSL Router w/ 4-Port Switch (BEFSR41-CA): $70 > (This is selling for $99.99 + GST at FutureShop & Compucentre): > > * Connects to a Broadband Modem Or to An Ethernet Backbone > * Equipped With a 4-Port 10/100 Switch > * Built-In 10/100 4-Port Switch! Supports up to 253 Users! > * Connects All of Your PCs to the Internet With Only One Purchased WAN > IP Address > * Creates a NAT Firewall to Protect Your PCs From Outside Intruders > * This router is compatible with All window Operating systems. Windows > 95, 98, 2000, XP, NT, and Me. And also works with Linux > > > $70 -- http://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users: http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 19:28:36 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:28:36 -0500 Subject: no negative billing here! Dell - Dimension XPS Desktop (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030828192836.CD05A75C1B@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On 28 Aug 2003 14:24:09 -0400, "Matthew Rice" said: > Max Blanco writes: > > Shouldn't be too hard to set up. Have you got wiki? > > I'm sure we can come up with a list of under five "checklist" items. > > Then rate vendors on how they stack up. This is where wiki comes in > > handy: many hands make short work. > > > > Then we can go public... > > There is one. The CLIC guys are using it. I or Bill could setup another > or > I could ask them if they want to share it. Co-incidentally, I just made a request to the Ottawa LUG on behalf of the Open Source development group at St. Chirstopher House for permission to use their wiki site. They haven't got back to me yet but I could email them and ask about some more space for TLUG use. OLUG is using PHPWiki: http://oclug.on.ca/wiki/ Someone at a group called Linux Studio (I think also in Ottawa) emailed me separately to offer wiki space if OLUG doesn't come through, though this offer may apply just to charities (which the St. Chris program kind of is). Anyway, this is another possibility. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 19:38:47 2003 From: offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dual-Booting Linux In-Reply-To: <3F4E2A09.8070702-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3F4E2A09.8070702@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20030828193847.70808.qmail@web40809.mail.yahoo.com> --- Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I have setup dual-boot windows/linux machines > many time but now I > want to dual/triple boot linux distros (Redhat, > Mandrake, Debian) on one > machine. How do I avoid conflicts with things like > /root, /ver, etc... > Has anyone one this before? Thank you!! You will partition your drive so that each distro will have its own partition. Your swap partition can be shared by the various Linux installs - no need to create a separate one for each. Multi-booting can be handled by GRUB - pick one of the Linuxes to be your 'permanent' install and whenever you add another Linux install to your drive, setup a entry for it in this 'permanent' Linux's /boot/grub/menu.lst. Daniel __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 19:46:58 2003 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:46:58 -0400 Subject: High availability question Message-ID: <001301c36d9d$39c1ef90$6401a8c0@main> I am running a hosting server currently equipped with a backup diesel generator. Since the blackout, I have been considering a backup high availability system, where if one would go out, the other would pick up the slack. I have been told that this is impossible, and can only work if I use a high availability scheme which would always keep one server running. I have been told: "The expensive version of that would be to use the akamai network, you could have both geographical load balancing and near-instant failover. Otherwise, Youd have to build a cluster to start with, there are a lot of ways to do this, and it depends on the service. WWW for example is much easier to do than mail, you can use rsync to keep the content up to date. Logfiles on the other hand would have to be recombined and processed later on to do statistics. Another cheap way to do this would be to set up a bunch of squid servers to proxy traffic to your box. This wouldnt do anything for mail though, to keep that together you'd need some kind of network file system, NFS, AFS or Coda (qmail is NFS aware, which helps). You'd only need to store the user mailboxes (/var/qmail/mailnames) on the network filesystem, Id keep the queue on a local disk for performance reasons. For content, I'd designate one system as the designated "master" for inbound content (ftp, database, etc), and everything else mirrors that (rsync, replication for mysql and postgres, etc). Databases would be the most complex component, you'd have to work out your replication strategy to break out how to do the inserts/updates without each system stepping on each others toes." Does anyone have an idea of how I could offer live (or rsynced to 2 hours) backup/live services for hosting. I would like if one server went down, the other would take over. Is this possible? Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 20:21:56 2003 From: jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Rootham) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:21:56 -0400 Subject: Drive Imaging with dd Message-ID: >On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 11:47, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> Have you looked at top while running dd with gzip? Might be CPU >> limited. >> >> Lennart Sorensen > >With gzip set anywhere between -2 and -7 I seem to get around 15-25% >idle time, which seems to indicate that there's enough processor time. >It does bounce around a lot though, anywhere between 97% to 60% use for >gzip. > I would suspect (with almost no evidence) that you may be missing latency windows (especially on write). It would not take too many times for the disk to have to spin (almost) all the way round to hammer the total transfer rate pretty good. If you could get more buffers in the pipe that might help. Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 20:39:05 2003 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:39:05 -0400 Subject: High availability question In-Reply-To: <001301c36d9d$39c1ef90$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <001301c36d9d$39c1ef90$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030828163624.01ac6608@localhost> At 03:46 PM 28/08/2003 -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote: >I am running a hosting server currently equipped with a backup diesel >generator. Since the blackout, I have been considering a backup high >availability system, where if one would go out, the other would pick up >the slack. I have been told that this is impossible, and can only work >if I use a high availability scheme which would always keep one server >running. [snip] >Does anyone have an idea of how I could offer live (or rsynced to 2 >hours) backup/live services for hosting. I would like if one server went >down, the other would take over. Is this possible? seems like it might fit the bill. I have not tried it but it is on my TODO list of things to check out. Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, Ontario Canada M4N 3P6 Tel: 416-410-3326 mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 20:54:48 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: 28 Aug 2003 16:54:48 -0400 Subject: Drive Imaging with dd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1062104088.7489.6.camel@yoda> On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 16:21, Jim Rootham wrote: > I would suspect (with almost no evidence) that you may be missing latency > windows (especially on write). It would not take too many times for the disk > to have to spin (almost) all the way round to hammer the total transfer rate > pretty good. If you could get more buffers in the pipe that might help. > > Jim I have the same suspicion. Is there any way to control pipes in bash? I was thinking of piping the data through dd again with a different block size to try and make a quasi-buffer, but I don't think that'll be very efficient. Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- The highest use of capital is not to make more money, but to make money do more for the betterment of life. -- Henry Ford (1863 - 1947) ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 28 23:22:48 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:22:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: High availability question In-Reply-To: <001301c36d9d$39c1ef90$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <001301c36d9d$39c1ef90$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <24716.216.138.194.32.1062112968.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > I am running a hosting server currently equipped with a backup diesel > generator. Since the blackout, I have been considering a backup high > availability system, where if one would go out, the other would pick up > the slack. I have been told that this is impossible, and can only work > if I use a high availability scheme which would always keep one server > running. It's called quasi real-time backup with redundancy failover... > I have been told: "The expensive version of that would be to use the > akamai network, you could have both geographical load balancing and > near-instant failover. That's the hardware version... yikes. Count your pennies, you will need them. > Otherwise, Youd have to build a cluster to start > with, there are a lot of ways to do this, and it depends on the service. A cluster is not necessary, although I've heard the word "cluster" loosely used to decribe what you want. IIRC there is a distro out (I have no details, this is from memory) that does this pretty much automagically. > WWW for example is much easier to do than mail, you can use rsync to > keep the content up to date. Unless those websites are glued together by a database. Then it becomes more complex... > Logfiles on the other hand would have to be > recombined and processed later on to do statistics. Log to a seperate log machine and you don't have to worry about it. good idea on an Enterprise network anyways... > Another cheap way to > do this would be to set up a bunch of squid servers to proxy traffic to > your box. This wouldnt do anything for mail though, to keep that > together you'd need some kind of network file system, NFS, AFS or Coda > (qmail is NFS aware, which helps). You'd only need to store the user > mailboxes (/var/qmail/mailnames) on the network filesystem, Id keep the > queue on a local disk for performance reasons. Just settle for using Maildir. Anything not completed will be tried again by most mailservers. Using a short (1 min) backup window will come in handy here, so only the mails completed within that magic minute will be lost until synced back into the mix after bringng the first machine back to life. > For content, I'd > designate one system as the designated "master" for inbound content > (ftp, database, etc), and everything else mirrors that (rsync, > replication for mysql and postgres, etc). Just directing to an IP is good enough... the failover scheme takes care of all the rest. > Databases would be the most > complex component, you'd have to work out your replication strategy to > break out how to do the inserts/updates without each system stepping on > each others toes." > > Does anyone have an idea of how I could offer live (or rsynced to 2 > hours) backup/live services for hosting. I would like if one server went > down, the other would take over. Is this possible? I know you can do it to within as little as one minute depending on the data you're backing up. The setup is quite simplistic: One machine that holds the data master copy, one for the backup server, and a third to see to the switching. Sysadmin Mag had an article about doing thsi last year (July 2002) "An Economical Scheme for Quasi Real-Time Backup" by Leo Liberti and Franco Raimondi. I don't think the article can be found on the net, but I happen to have a copy that I can photocopy for you if you'd care to come pick it up. That will take care of keeping the 2 servers sync'ed. Now you need a fast failover plan. Here's a link to another article that's pretty simple to follow. "Quick Network Redundancy Schemes" by Leo Liberti http://www.samag.com/documents/s=1152/sam0104a/0104a.htm Liberti co-authored the first article and also combines the 2 systems, which is pretty simple, actually. HTH -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 00:52:39 2003 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:52:39 -0400 Subject: Konqueror and Yahoo Groups In-Reply-To: <20030827141312.04853B5C54-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20030827141312.04853B5C54@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <200308282052.39246.mervc@eol.ca> On August 27, 2003 10:17 am, bob findlay wrote: I just tried Bob, using Konq 1.5.3 and got to my 4 groups with no problems. Nothing special has been configured in Konq. Konq. is identified as Mozilla 5.0/ Konq.... Java is not set globally but Javascript is on. Merv -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 01:29:29 2003 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:29:29 -0400 Subject: Dual-Booting Linux In-Reply-To: <1062089277.7167.6507.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <1062089277.7167.6507.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200308282129.29810.mervc@eol.ca> On August 28, 2003 12:47 pm, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 12:37, Madison Kelly wrote: > > I have setup dual-boot windows/linux machines many time but now I > > want to dual/triple boot linux distros (Redhat, Mandrake, Debian) on > > one machine. How do I avoid conflicts with things like /root, /ver, > > etc... Has anyone one this before? Thank you!! > Sure, you just create a partition for each distro. Linux now can safely partition drives I'm told or use the old Windows pgm Partition Magic. Any Linux install will install Grub or Lilo which have a menu to select which partition to boot. Merv -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 01:54:59 2003 From: linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org (Ian Goldberg) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:54:59 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied Message-ID: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> I spent all afternoon on the phone with Dell. It turns out the Windows refund issue didn't even come up, because (get this), when you boot the computer, you're presented with a *Dell* screen that forces you to say you've read and agreed to all the EULAs for the software on the system. Trick is, they don't give them to you. No one at Dell seemed perplexed by this. I was being forced to say I've read agreements I don't have. So we didn't even get to the bit where I could point to the "refund" clause in the Windows EULA, since I was never presented with it in the first place. The whole story: http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html This is the next level above "click-through" licenses. Now, they figure no one reads the EULAs anyway, so why bother even providing a copy? They'll click "I've read and agreed" anyhow. Ugh. - Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 02:03:51 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:03:51 -0400 Subject: OT: unlimited DSL bandwidth usage Message-ID: <200308282203.51426.fraser@wehave.net> Now if only they would give me a mail relay that actually worked. http://forums.sympatico.ca/WebX?14@@.1de4406a -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 01:55:06 2003 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Drive Imaging with dd In-Reply-To: <1062104088.7489.6.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org> References: <1062104088.7489.6.camel@yoda> Message-ID: On 28 Aug 2003, Kareem Shehata wrote: > I have the same suspicion. Is there any way to control pipes in bash? > I was thinking of piping the data through dd again with a different > block size to try and make a quasi-buffer, but I don't think that'll be > very efficient. Have a look at the following: http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/contrib/libc6/i386/buffer-1.19-1.i386.html Terry -- Terry Tanski, B.Sc. Phone: (416) 863-2126 Canada NewsWire Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 05:31:00 2003 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 01:31:00 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692-1FONPbNgvBvHguoPZneghl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: <200308290131.01620.marc@lijour.net> Le 28 Ao??t 2003 21:54, Ian Goldberg a ??crit : > I spent all afternoon on the phone with Dell. It turns out the Windows > refund issue didn't even come up, because (get this), when you boot the > computer, you're presented with a *Dell* screen that forces you to say > you've read and agreed to all the EULAs for the software on the system. > > Trick is, they don't give them to you. > > No one at Dell seemed perplexed by this. I was being forced to say I've > read agreements I don't have. So we didn't even get to the bit where I > could point to the "refund" clause in the Windows EULA, since I was > never presented with it in the first place. > > The whole story: > > http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > > This is the next level above "click-through" licenses. Now, they figure > no one reads the EULAs anyway, so why bother even providing a copy? > They'll click "I've read and agreed" anyhow. > > Ugh. A masterpiece! I had the same problem with DELL. But, wait until you try to install vmware and discover that you windowsOEM won't work with the vmware pseudoBIOS! DELL CDs are for DELL BIOS... It's a shame. And I'm glad to ear that. Next time, I probably won't buy a DELL unless somebody can tell me they changed this ludicrous policy. Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 02:51:48 2003 From: fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org (bob findlay) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:51:48 -0400 Subject: Konqueror and Yahoo Groups In-Reply-To: <200308282052.39246.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20030827141312.04853B5C54@outbox.allstream.net> <200308282052.39246.mervc@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20030829121911.CA265B9483@outbox.allstream.net> Mine is the stock version that comes with RedHat 7.3 ie. Konqueror 2.2.1 Looks to me that something changed between your version and this one which broke the ability to access the Yahoo Groups server. On August 28, 2003 08:52 pm, you wrote: > On August 27, 2003 10:17 am, bob findlay wrote: > > > I just tried Bob, using Konq 1.5.3 and got to my 4 groups with no problems. > Nothing special has been configured in Konq. > > Konq. is identified as Mozilla 5.0/ Konq.... Java is not set globally but > Javascript is on. > > Merv -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 13:08:41 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:08:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Drive Imaging with dd In-Reply-To: <32838.64.7.157.236.1062077763.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org> References: <32838.64.7.157.236.1062077763.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Kareem Shehata wrote: > When just dump the files directly from one drive to another, the > performance is spot on: > root at ttyp0[test]# dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1 > 2260624+0 records in > 2260624+0 records out > 1157439488 bytes transferred in 64.225880 seconds (18021388 bytes/sec) > > But the moment I stick gzip in the middle, is slows down by at least half: > > root at ttyp0[test]# dd if=/dev/hda1 | gzip -1 > shuttlepod.hda1.gz Have you considered: dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1 | gzip -1 I believe you may see different performance with this. Also, any particular reason you're using dd rather than tar? I'm currently developing a CD which will (as one of its functions) backup Win* boxes (and allow easy recovery). When I'm finished this will be freely redistributable. I'll mention it on list when I'm done if anyone wants to download it. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 13:19:00 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:19:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund: stymied by Dell In-Reply-To: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692-1FONPbNgvBvHguoPZneghl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Ian Goldberg wrote: > The whole story: > > http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > from said page: "7. Software. All software is provided subject to the license agreement that is part of the package. Customer agrees that it will be bound by the license agreement once the package is opened or its seal is broken. "Customer agrees that --->it<---" This licence does not apply to a human being. They get one to acknowledge one's soul away. Please don't touch this licence with a ten-foot pole. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 13:44:59 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:44:59 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <200308290131.01620.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> <200308290131.01620.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20030829134459.GG21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 01:31:00AM -0400, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote: > A masterpiece! > > I had the same problem with DELL. But, wait until you try to install vmware > and discover that you windowsOEM won't work with the vmware pseudoBIOS! > DELL CDs are for DELL BIOS... Same with Gateway. > It's a shame. And I'm glad to ear that. Next time, I probably won't buy a DELL > unless somebody can tell me they changed this ludicrous policy. I imagine microsoft doesn't want Dell's diskimage installable Windows version to work on other machines. imagine if it fell into the wrong hands. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 13:57:07 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:57:07 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: If someone sells laptops w/o Windows installed Message-ID: Yes. In one case the supplier installed MSDOS I think to see if it booted right and then deleted the partitions with fdisk I think before shipping. Any laptop where you purchase it with a disk up-or downgrade will have a blank hdd in it and you can tell the vendor you want him to leave it like that. There is a better chance to get such a machine from a local shop that does its own integration (shop around in your area), than from a big chain. You will also likely get a good price. Buying a big name brand laptop for use with linux/others is a risky business imho. They almost always have the cojones to implement non-standard hardware that requires special drivers. If you then try to run anything but a mainstream os (like netbsd etc etc) on it you have a problem. The problem can range from nonfunctioning modem to burned out cpu due to acpi incompatibility not allowing the cpu cooler fan to run. Cheapers laptops will have more compliant hardware since they usually do not have the special agreements with our favorite software house and they need to be compatible with the mainstream. Many even have linux drivers on the system driver cd (supplied). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 13:59:44 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:59:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund: stymied by Dell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Max Blanco wrote: > On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Ian Goldberg wrote: > > > The whole story: > > > > http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > > > > from said page: > > "7. Software. All software is provided subject to the license > agreement that is part of the package. Customer agrees that > it will be bound by the license agreement once the package is > opened or its seal is broken. > > "Customer agrees that --->it<---" > > This licence does not apply to a human being. Correction to: > They get one to acknowledge one's soul away. They have an animate human being acknowledge that he or she has no soul by indirect means. The animate human, who would warrant the appellation of "he" or "she", is replaced by a meat machine, denoted by "it". > Please don't touch this licence with a ten-foot pole. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 14:04:57 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:04:57 -0400 Subject: If someone sells laptops w/o Windows installed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030829140457.GI21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 04:57:07PM +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Yes. In one case the supplier installed MSDOS I think to see if it booted > right and then deleted the partitions with fdisk I think before shipping. > Any laptop where you purchase it with a disk up-or downgrade will have a > blank hdd in it and you can tell the vendor you want him to leave it like > that. There is a better chance to get such a machine from a local shop > that does its own integration (shop around in your area), than from a big > chain. You will also likely get a good price. > > Buying a big name brand laptop for use with linux/others is a risky > business imho. They almost always have the cojones to implement > non-standard hardware that requires special drivers. If you then try to > run anything but a mainstream os (like netbsd etc etc) on it you have a > problem. The problem can range from nonfunctioning modem to burned out cpu > due to acpi incompatibility not allowing the cpu cooler fan to run. I haven't personally seen any of those sall brand laptops yet. Where do you find those? As for linux comaptible laptops, IBM thinpads often are very good, although not all of them. I think their website even has a list of certified linux compatible laptops. I have had problems with video on one thinkpad that wasn't listed as compatible, and the modem didn't work either (apparently the sound chip conflicted due to some stupidity in the intel chipset design). > Cheapers laptops will have more compliant hardware since they usually do > not have the special agreements with our favorite software house and they > need to be compatible with the mainstream. Many even have linux drivers on > the system driver cd (supplied). What brands would these be? I am currently helping a friend find a new laptop, and would love to avoid the likes ofd Dell, Toshiba, Sony, etc. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 13:43:50 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:43:50 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692-1FONPbNgvBvHguoPZneghl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: <20030829134350.GF21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 09:54:59PM -0400, Ian Goldberg wrote: > I spent all afternoon on the phone with Dell. It turns out the Windows > refund issue didn't even come up, because (get this), when you boot the > computer, you're presented with a *Dell* screen that forces you to say > you've read and agreed to all the EULAs for the software on the system. > > Trick is, they don't give them to you. > > No one at Dell seemed perplexed by this. I was being forced to say I've > read agreements I don't have. So we didn't even get to the bit where I > could point to the "refund" clause in the Windows EULA, since I was > never presented with it in the first place. > > The whole story: > > http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > > This is the next level above "click-through" licenses. Now, they figure > no one reads the EULAs anyway, so why bother even providing a copy? > They'll click "I've read and agreed" anyhow. I wonder if it is time Dell started shipping a bit more paper with their machines. License agreements for example. :) Well IBM does sell laptops with Linux preinstalled. Not sure if anyone else does, or if anyone sells laptops with no software at all. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 14:19:44 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:19:44 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: If someone sells laptops w/o Windows installed In-Reply-To: <20030829140457.GI21637-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20030829140457.GI21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > What brands would these be? I am currently helping a friend find a new > laptop, and would love to avoid the likes ofd Dell, Toshiba, Sony, etc. These brands seem to change with the seasons. They have two things in common: they are mostly made in Taiwan, and they come 'bare bones' w/o anything excepting psu and battery. I do not know where to get these in Canada, here they appear on specials in the local newspapers etc almost every week. They are usually stuffed with hdds etc by local small integrators and you can up/downgrade at will. I will try to get some names for you next week. The quality is more than reasonable. Whatever happened with Sony Vaios and Crusoe ? I thought those would be very compatible with linux ? No more ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 15:30:03 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: 29 Aug 2003 11:30:03 -0400 Subject: Grub Not Starting Message-ID: <1062171003.11368.10.camel@yoda> Apologies in advance for the total newbie-ness of this question, but I can't seem to figure this one out. I've managed to shrink the ntfs partition my Inspiron shipped with thanks to Fraser's tip. I've set up swap on hda2 and Gentoo on hda3. I followed the gentoo docs on setting up grub on the MBR (hda or hd0), but every time it boots I get: GRUB Loading stage1.5. GRUB Loading, please wait... Then nothing. The good news is that I can boot both XP and Gentoo using a grub boot floppy and typing in my grub.conf manually. That leaves me with the impression that there's something wrong with the way I'm setting up grub. The docs said to do the following in grub: > root (hd0,2) > setup (hd0) Any ideas? Thanks in advance, Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. -- Douglas Adams ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 15:34:29 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:34:29 -0400 Subject: Grub Not Starting In-Reply-To: <1062171003.11368.10.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org> References: <1062171003.11368.10.camel@yoda> Message-ID: <20030829153429.GJ21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:30:03AM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote: > Apologies in advance for the total newbie-ness of this question, but I > can't seem to figure this one out. > > I've managed to shrink the ntfs partition my Inspiron shipped with > thanks to Fraser's tip. I've set up swap on hda2 and Gentoo on hda3. I > followed the gentoo docs on setting up grub on the MBR (hda or hd0), but > every time it boots I get: > > GRUB Loading stage1.5. > > > GRUB Loading, please wait... > > Then nothing. > > The good news is that I can boot both XP and Gentoo using a grub boot > floppy and typing in my grub.conf manually. That leaves me with the > impression that there's something wrong with the way I'm setting up > grub. The docs said to do the following in grub: > > root (hd0,2) > > setup (hd0) > > Any ideas? On debian I do: grub-install /dev/hda and that's it. I don't use grub to install grub. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 15:38:44 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:38:44 -0400 Subject: If someone sells laptops w/o Windows installed In-Reply-To: References: <20030829140457.GI21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030829153844.GK21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 05:19:44PM +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote: > These brands seem to change with the seasons. They have two things in > common: they are mostly made in Taiwan, and they come 'bare bones' w/o > anything excepting psu and battery. I do not know where to get these in > Canada, here they appear on specials in the local newspapers etc almost > every week. They are usually stuffed with hdds etc by local > small integrators and you can up/downgrade at will. I will try to get some > names for you next week. The quality is more than reasonable. > > Whatever happened with Sony Vaios and Crusoe ? I thought those would be > very compatible with linux ? No more ? The Sony Vaio's are as is usually the case with Sony, very proprietary. They have bits of hardware that has requires special coding to deal with. It seems to be finally possible to use a Vaio properly with linux, but it sees to have taken a good year or two to get there. ie: Package: spicctrl Description: Sony Vaio controller program to set LCD backlight brightness spicctrl is a small program that can use the Sony Programmable I/O Control device (SPIC), which is part of Sony Vaio's, to do a few simple things. Currently, it can only be used to control the brightness on the LCD backlight, and print out some information about the battery. You need a kernel with the sonypi module (and a Vaio laptop..) to use this program. So not really that plain and simple. No idea about the Crusoe based machines. Supported CPU doesn't imply supported other hardware. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 15:54:08 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: 29 Aug 2003 11:54:08 -0400 Subject: Drive Imaging with dd In-Reply-To: References: <32838.64.7.157.236.1062077763.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> Message-ID: <1062172452.11368.20.camel@yoda> On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 09:08, Robert Brockway wrote: > Have you considered: > > dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1 | gzip -1 I'm not entirely sure what would happen there. The if and of directives tell dd to just pipe the data to the file shuttlepod.hda1, what's left to go to gzip? To anyone interested, I think I may have figured out the bottleneck: 2000M instructions/sec / 20M bytes/sec = 100 instructions/byte That's not a lot of overhead for gzip to deal with the file, especially when you consider system overhead. I managed to image the drive at about 10M/s, achieving a compression rate of 75% with gzip at -5. This is by far the best drive imaging solution my company has seen. > I believe you may see different performance with this. > > Also, any particular reason you're using dd rather than tar? I'm trying to take a complete snapshot of the partition so that if *anything* happens, all I have to do is create the partition, dump the data, and boot. I'm not certain tar would capture everything, and NT/XP are notorious for doing interesting things with the filesystem. > I'm currently developing a CD which will (as one of its functions) backup > Win* boxes (and allow easy recovery). When I'm finished this will be > freely redistributable. I'll mention it on list when I'm done if anyone > wants to download it. I'd be interested in giving it a shot. One more tool can only be a good thing. Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. -- Douglas Adams ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 16:05:29 2003 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:05:29 +0300 Subject: Windows refund: stymied Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 16:09:59 2003 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:09:59 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <20030829134459.GG21637-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> <200308290131.01620.marc@lijour.net> <20030829134459.GG21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200308291210.02022.marc@lijour.net> Le 29 Ao??t 2003 09:44, Lennart Sorensen a ??crit : > On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 01:31:00AM -0400, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote: > > A masterpiece! > > > > I had the same problem with DELL. But, wait until you try to install > > vmware and discover that you windowsOEM won't work with the vmware > > pseudoBIOS! DELL CDs are for DELL BIOS... > > Same with Gateway. > > > It's a shame. And I'm glad to ear that. Next time, I probably won't buy a > > DELL unless somebody can tell me they changed this ludicrous policy. > > I imagine microsoft doesn't want Dell's diskimage installable Windows > version to work on other machines. imagine if it fell into the wrong > hands. I wonder who is responsible/suable for not giving me what I ordered: the windows operating system (for this particular machine, at least!). And what if I want to move to another laptop, do I have to pay twice for the OS? Marc Lijour -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 16:29:51 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:29:51 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030829162951.GO21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 07:05:29PM +0300, E K wrote: Apparently noting. Turn of HTML posts. At least include plain text. What idiotic mail system do you use anyhow? Oh hotmail. Well fix it please. Sheesh. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 16:31:17 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:31:17 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <200308291210.02022.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> <200308290131.01620.marc@lijour.net> <20030829134459.GG21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200308291210.02022.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20030829163117.GP21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 12:09:59PM -0400, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote: > I wonder who is responsible/suable for not giving me what I ordered: the > windows operating system (for this particular machine, at least!). > > And what if I want to move to another laptop, do I have to pay twice for the > OS? I believe OEM versions might be licensed to that specific machine. You probably aren't allowed to reuse it on another machine. I guess that is one of the "advantages" Dell has for probably paying less to MS for each license. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 17:21:07 2003 From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:21:07 -0400 Subject: The most recent meeting Message-ID: <3F4F8B83.2020700@idirect.com> Damn, I'm sorry I missed this. http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2003-08-29-008-26-OP-CY-MS I have these visions of some poor journalist standing at the front of an auditorium with his notebook on a podium with 50 people yelling stuff like "run ldconfig!", "Pick the frame buffer X driver!", "No, the OTHER left mouse button!", "You need devfs for that to work!", "'ln' dash 's', no! 'ln' _space_ dash 's'!" -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 18:29:47 2003 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:29:47 -0400 Subject: Windows refund experience? In-Reply-To: ; from matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 06:06:19PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20030829142947.U6785@leftmind.net> Matthew Rice wrote: > ... I'd do it myself but I needed the XP on my Dell laptop for work ... No, no, no, the proper excuse for continuing to use 'doze is that you want to help prove Gates is a monopolist; if everyone doesn't use his products then he beats the rap. I was raised to be a good Christian boy and I'm being nice to Bill Gates by helping him beat the monopoly charges by not using *any* of his products. (Okay, so the USDOJ-Microsoft lawsuit is history by now, but I'm still very happy not to have to personally experience everything I hear about the latest few rounds of viruses and service packs.) -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 18:52:12 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: 29 Aug 2003 14:52:12 -0400 Subject: Grub Not Starting In-Reply-To: <20030829153429.GJ21637-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1062171003.11368.10.camel@yoda> <20030829153429.GJ21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1062183132.11369.25.camel@yoda> On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 11:34, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On debian I do: grub-install /dev/hda and that's it. I don't use grub > to install grub. > > Lennart Sorensen I gave that a try, but I keep getting the following error message: "/dev/hda does not have any corresponding BIOS drive." If I try "grub-install '(hd0)'" I get something even stranger, involving sed and ls errors. I think I'm going to try lilo just to get this out of the way, but I'd really like to know why grub isn't working. Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. -- Douglas Adams ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 18:50:04 2003 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:50:04 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692-1FONPbNgvBvHguoPZneghl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: <1062183004.15716.5.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com> On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 21:54, Ian Goldberg wrote: > The whole story: > > http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html This is now on /. A good opportunity to muster ppl if any linux.ca + response to Dell + is desired. Cheers, Lloyd + -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 18:59:27 2003 From: btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (bill traynor) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:59:27 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <1062183004.15716.5.camel-C5Qn8pvFeXd9eUcvBT9MJMxtgHpCUUYS@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> <1062183004.15716.5.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com> Message-ID: <3F4FA28F.8010200@linux.ca> Lloyd D Budd wrote: >On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 21:54, Ian Goldberg wrote: > > >>The whole story: >> >>http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html >> >> > >This is now on /. A good opportunity to muster ppl if any linux.ca + >response to Dell + is desired. > > Well, CLUE is planning on organizing a windowsrefundday in the near future. >Cheers, >Lloyd + > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 19:23:07 2003 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:23:07 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <20030829134350.GF21637-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>; from lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org on Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 09:43:50AM -0400 References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> <20030829134350.GF21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20030829152307.C22187@ee.ryerson.ca> This is probably obvious, but for those who buy *used* laptops, CPUsed gives you the option of getting Win installed or not, and the credit you if you choose to opt out. (As I recollect, about $100). Peter On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 09:43:50AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 09:54:59PM -0400, Ian Goldberg wrote: > > I spent all afternoon on the phone with Dell. It turns out the Windows > > refund issue didn't even come up, because (get this), when you boot the > > computer, you're presented with a *Dell* screen that forces you to say > > you've read and agreed to all the EULAs for the software on the system. > > > > Trick is, they don't give them to you. > > > > No one at Dell seemed perplexed by this. I was being forced to say I've > > read agreements I don't have. So we didn't even get to the bit where I > > could point to the "refund" clause in the Windows EULA, since I was > > never presented with it in the first place. > > > > The whole story: > > > > http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > > > > This is the next level above "click-through" licenses. Now, they figure > > no one reads the EULAs anyway, so why bother even providing a copy? > > They'll click "I've read and agreed" anyhow. > > I wonder if it is time Dell started shipping a bit more paper with their > machines. License agreements for example. :) > > Well IBM does sell laptops with Linux preinstalled. Not sure if anyone > else does, or if anyone sells laptops with no software at all. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 19:37:25 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <1062183004.15716.5.camel-C5Qn8pvFeXd9eUcvBT9MJMxtgHpCUUYS@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> <1062183004.15716.5.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com> Message-ID: <26476.216.138.194.32.1062185845.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 21:54, Ian Goldberg wrote: >> The whole story: >> >> http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > > This is now on /. A good opportunity to muster ppl if any linux.ca + > response to Dell + is desired. > > Cheers, > Lloyd + I agree to where I've been sseing this thread going, but I have a question... Where will this all lead to? We send a petition, they look at it and dismiss it because they have an agreement that stipulates they sell all desktop systems with M$ software pre-installed. Are we asking them to break that agreement? What is their incentive to do it voluntarily? A bunch of people screaming unfair business practices isn't nearly as potent as one individual in court screaming no fair. Dell is a business, so they make decisions based on the bottom line. M$ must have offered them something (or the appearance of something?) in the agreement they have together, and locked them in hard with a bunch of fancy legal mumbo-jumbo. The opensource community has to have something that they can see in their future bottom line or they won't budge. Why should they if it isn't plesing to shareholders? That's my thoughts on all this... Ian? Seems the ball's in your court. what's your thoughts on the goal for a final outcome of all this? -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 20:12:46 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: The most recent meeting In-Reply-To: <3F4F8B83.2020700-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3F4F8B83.2020700@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Mike Kallies wrote: > Damn, I'm sorry I missed this. > > http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2003-08-29-008-26-OP-CY-MS > > I have these visions of some poor journalist standing at the front of an > auditorium with his notebook on a podium with 50 people yelling stuff > like "run ldconfig!", "Pick the frame buffer X driver!", "No, the OTHER > left mouse button!", "You need devfs for that to work!", "'ln' dash 's', > no! 'ln' _space_ dash 's'!" That was _exactly_ what it was like - are you sure you didn't attend? :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 19:59:28 2003 From: linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org (Ian Goldberg) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:59:28 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <26476.216.138.194.32.1062185845.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> <1062183004.15716.5.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com> <26476.216.138.194.32.1062185845.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: <20030829195928.GB24417@paip.net> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 03:37:25PM -0400, Keith Mastin wrote: > > > On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 21:54, Ian Goldberg wrote: > >> The whole story: > >> > >> http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > > > > This is now on /. A good opportunity to muster ppl if any linux.ca + > > response to Dell + is desired. > > > > Cheers, > > Lloyd + > > I agree to where I've been sseing this thread going, but I have a question... > > Where will this all lead to? We send a petition, they look at it and > dismiss it because they have an agreement that stipulates they sell all > desktop systems with M$ software pre-installed. > > Are we asking them to break that agreement? What is their incentive to do > it voluntarily? A bunch of people screaming unfair business practices > isn't nearly as potent as one individual in court screaming no fair. > > Dell is a business, so they make decisions based on the bottom line. M$ > must have offered them something (or the appearance of something?) in the > agreement they have together, and locked them in hard with a bunch of > fancy legal mumbo-jumbo. > > The opensource community has to have something that they can see in their > future bottom line or they won't budge. Why should they if it isn't > plesing to shareholders? > > That's my thoughts on all this... Ian? Seems the ball's in your court. > what's your thoughts on the goal for a final outcome of all this? I really doubt they have an agreement with MS that says that they have to get consumers to agree to the license before they have a chance to see it. Kat's suspicion is that when the first license screen you saw was the MS license one (that contained the "return for a refund" clause), they were getting bothered by people trying to do that. So they put this screen up first. Now, by the time you ever _see_ the "return for a refund" clause, you've already agreed to the license. [My first /.ing! :-) ] I'd love it if they just removed the logically impossible requirement at boot. Simply displaying the EULAs to which the user needs to agree would be sufficient. (Well, and I'd like leads on laptops in the CA$1500-CA$2000 range that run Linux.) Thanks, - Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 20:41:30 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Drive Imaging with dd In-Reply-To: <1062172452.11368.20.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org> References: <32838.64.7.157.236.1062077763.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> <1062172452.11368.20.camel@yoda> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Kareem Shehata wrote: > On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 09:08, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Have you considered: > > > > dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1 | gzip -1 > > I'm not entirely sure what would happen there. The if and of directives > tell dd to just pipe the data to the file shuttlepod.hda1, what's left > to go to gzip? Hmm...good point. I was trying to get the dd stream non-interrupted before sending it to gzip. How about this: gzip -1 `dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1` > I'm trying to take a complete snapshot of the partition so that if > *anything* happens, all I have to do is create the partition, dump the > data, and boot. I'm not certain tar would capture everything, and NT/XP > are notorious for doing interesting things with the filesystem. I take your point about NT/XP. I hadn't heard of any weirdness that Linux's emulation of these filesystem types didn't cope with. Might be worth checking into further though. I'm currently experimenting with tar for this purpose for the backup CD I mentioned and I've seen no problems so far. My test system is Win98 using vfat. As I'm sure you're aware the problem with dd is that what you get is an image of the filesystem, which means when you dump the image onto a new HD you get the old filesystem back, meaning that you may not be able to effectively use the full size of the new drive without resizing, or something like that. I'm been working on the assumption that my CD will have all the tools to make a fat/vfat filesystem when needed, and then drop the tar file back. The CD itself will carry doco on the procedure, etc. I can't recall offhand if I'd located a unix based tool to make an NTFS. I actually suspect not. I'll look at including dd as alternative backup mechanism. I suspect it would have speed advantages over tar. > I'd be interested in giving it a shot. One more tool can only be a good > thing. Definately. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 20:43:33 2003 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692-1FONPbNgvBvHguoPZneghl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Ian Goldberg wrote: > I spent all afternoon on the phone with Dell. It turns out the Windows > refund issue didn't even come up, because (get this), when you boot the > computer, you're presented with a *Dell* screen that forces you to say > you've read and agreed to all the EULAs for the software on the system. > > Trick is, they don't give them to you. > > No one at Dell seemed perplexed by this. I was being forced to say I've > read agreements I don't have. So we didn't even get to the bit where I > could point to the "refund" clause in the Windows EULA, since I was > never presented with it in the first place. > > The whole story: > > http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > > This is the next level above "click-through" licenses. Now, they figure > no one reads the EULAs anyway, so why bother even providing a copy? > They'll click "I've read and agreed" anyhow. I think another course will work / would have worked better... Depending on a few possible "gotchas"(1), and notwithstanding your "all afternoon on the phone with Dell", you should be better off taking the position that though you preferred not to have any windows on the machine, you decided that you that you might be able to utilize windows (ie with dual boot) and you really do *need* the computer running now(2), but upon viewing the windows eula you found terms that you could not agree to and that you then had to continue on and install Linux but with no working windows(3). This (probably) leaves the situation that you have a contract with Dell where they are obligated to supply a working computer but cannot without you agreeing to a second contract (the eula). Unless the original contract was clear that further terms and or conditions existed and that those terms and conditions were available for your perusal somewhere convienant *and* that they contained no unusual or unexpected terms(4), the terms of the eula would not form part of the first contract. Because "a contract to contract is not a contract", the first contract cannot require you enter into another future contract. The first contract (probably) existed and was binding upon both parties before the machine was actually received. (1) ...in your original conversation with the sales people and disclaimers or notices presented during the order process or on the final invoice (if displayed before you agreeded to complete the purchase). (2) assuming that it can be said that you were thinking this at the time. (3) your position would likely be better if Linux were not yet installed. (4) unless any unusual or unexpected terms were explained to you. As a business man I would now ask Dell how they intend to deliver a working computer? What provisions or policies do they have to deal with such a situation? Will they refund all your money plus compensation for your time and any other expenses and arrange for the pickup of the machine. Or will they agree to your offer to accept compensation for the value of the un-usable OS (windows) included in the purchase price? If not - I would think you would have a good shot in small claims court naming both Dell and MS as defendants. BTW, I see a very interesting situation here: if in fact the two contracts are separate and the first cannot bind the buyer to agree to the second; can the buyer end up with a "legal" instance of the OS without being obligated by the eula? -- Herb Richter Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 20:51:58 2003 From: linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org (Ian Goldberg) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:51:58 -0400 Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> Message-ID: <20030829205158.GA27510@paip.net> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 04:43:33PM -0400, Herb Richter wrote: > BTW, I see a very interesting situation here: if in fact the two > contracts are separate and the first cannot bind the buyer to agree to > the second; can the buyer end up with a "legal" instance of the OS without > being obligated by the eula? As far as I understand, this is never possible. You can do all the tricks you like to avoid agreeing to the EULA, but since that's the document which grants you the permission you need to *copy the software from the hard disk to the computer's memory*, you'd no longer be allowed to do that. *That's* the reason EULAs are so ridiculous: *using* computer software is considered *copying* it, and you need explicit permission to do so. Bundled with that permission, you get all manner of restrictions. If only copyright law were phrased in such a way that you could only infringe it in the case you were giving copies to other people... But it's not. :-( - Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 20:43:26 2003 From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund: stymied In-Reply-To: <20030829195928.GB24417-cOjNTMaGA5U@public.gmane.org> References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net> <1062183004.15716.5.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com> <26476.216.138.194.32.1062185845.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <20030829195928.GB24417@paip.net> Message-ID: <26772.216.138.194.32.1062189806.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> > > I really doubt they have an agreement with MS that says that they have > to get consumers to agree to the license before they have a chance to > see it. okay, I see. This is just about that first splash screen, not about the larger issues of unfair software bundling practices. I suspect that the 2 are inexplicitly linked, but I dunno how -- Keith Mastin BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc. Toronto, Canada (416)696 6070 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 21:09:28 2003 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:09:28 -0400 Subject: Drive Imaging with dd In-Reply-To: References: <32838.64.7.157.236.1062077763.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> <1062172452.11368.20.camel@yoda> Message-ID: <20030829210928.GQ21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 04:41:30PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hmm...good point. I was trying to get the dd stream non-interrupted > before sending it to gzip. How about this: > > gzip -1 `dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1` So dd send data from disk to a file, then gzip is told to use the output of dd (number of i/o's done, etc) as command line. That won't do anything useful. Perhaps dd if=/dev/hda1 bs=100k | gzip -1 > result.image.gz Lennarh Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 21:24:01 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: 29 Aug 2003 17:24:01 -0400 Subject: Drive Imaging with dd In-Reply-To: References: <32838.64.7.157.236.1062077763.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> <1062172452.11368.20.camel@yoda> Message-ID: <1062192241.12012.28.camel@yoda> On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 16:41, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hmm...good point. I was trying to get the dd stream non-interrupted > before sending it to gzip. How about this: > > gzip -1 `dd if=/dev/hda1 of=shuttlepod.hda1` I thing gzip has to interrupt the stream, unfortunately. Oh well, 10Mb/s is about 4x faster than the previous usb solution, and it gets better compression too. > > I'm trying to take a complete snapshot of the partition so that if > > *anything* happens, all I have to do is create the partition, dump the > > data, and boot. I'm not certain tar would capture everything, and NT/XP > > are notorious for doing interesting things with the filesystem. > > I take your point about NT/XP. I hadn't heard of any weirdness that > Linux's emulation of these filesystem types didn't cope with. Might be > worth checking into further though. > > I'm currently experimenting with tar for this purpose for the backup CD I > mentioned and I've seen no problems so far. My test system is Win98 using > vfat. With Win9x, this is definitely doable. Actually, I used to just xcopy stuff across, once upon a time. NTFS is a whole other ball of wax. Windows does all kinds of funny stuff with the filesystem, but there's good news. There's a new version of the kernel driver for ntfs that supports everything up to XP. I just did a quick google for mkntfs, and it looks as though it may be possible. > As I'm sure you're aware the problem with dd is that what you get is an > image of the filesystem, which means when you dump the image onto a new HD > you get the old filesystem back, meaning that you may not be able to > effectively use the full size of the new drive without resizing, or > something like that. > > I'm been working on the assumption that my CD will have all the tools to > make a fat/vfat filesystem when needed, and then drop the tar file > back. The CD itself will carry doco on the procedure, etc. I can't > recall offhand if I'd located a unix based tool to make an NTFS. I > actually suspect not. Is this a tool for migration or backup? I find when migrating boxes, it's best to reinstall Windows, then pour across any data. For backups, I like the idea of a drive image because I'm guaranteed to have everything on the drive, and restoring is simple. But that's just my personal preference. For less demanding users, simply throwing the tar file might do the trick. > I'll look at including dd as alternative backup mechanism. I suspect it > would have speed advantages over tar. dd is an essential tool, even if all you use it for is making floppy's or cd images. I wouldn't write scripts around it, as anyone who really needs it will know how to use it, or use Ghost4Unix. Let me know how the CD goes. Kareem -- /********************************************************************* kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611 -------------------------------------------------------------------- I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. -- Douglas Adams ********************************************************************/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 29 23:21:03 2003 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 29 Aug 2003 19:21:03 -0400 Subject: Grub Not Starting In-Reply-To: <20030829153429.GJ21637-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1062171003.11368.10.camel@yoda> <20030829153429.GJ21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 11:30:03AM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote: > > Apologies in advance for the total newbie-ness of this question, but I > > can't seem to figure this one out. > > > > I've managed to shrink the ntfs partition my Inspiron shipped with > > thanks to Fraser's tip. I've set up swap on hda2 and Gentoo on hda3. I > > followed the gentoo docs on setting up grub on the MBR (hda or hd0), but > > every time it boots I get: > > > > GRUB Loading stage1.5. > > > > > > GRUB Loading, please wait... > > > > Then nothing. > > > > The good news is that I can boot both XP and Gentoo using a grub boot > > floppy and typing in my grub.conf manually. That leaves me with the > > impression that there's something wrong with the way I'm setting up > > grub. The docs said to do the following in grub: > > > root (hd0,2) > > > setup (hd0) > > > > Any ideas? > > On debian I do: grub-install /dev/hda and that's it. I don't use grub > to install grub. FWIW, on my Inspiron 1100, the hard disk is actually hdc, the CD-ROM is hda. Debian suggested this in my lilo.conf: # Overrides the default mapping between harddisk names and the BIOS' # harddisk order. Use with caution. disk=/dev/hdc bios=0x80 Perhaps Grub has a similar option or maybe you need to use hd1. Just a thought. -- tim writer starnix inc. tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 00:22:06 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:22:06 -0500 Subject: St. Christopher House web page needs alt tags, was RE: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030830002206.1B4CE739DF@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:00:49 -0400 (EDT), "Max Blanco" said: > On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > > > > > Here's their web page: > > > > http://www.bangthedrum.net > > > > > > Do they know about > ? > > It seems like they have excluded the lynx user... > > Using Technology to Promote Social Inclusion > > Information and Communication Technologies (ICT) are increasingly > becoming a basic need for people living and working in Canada. In > order to have control over one's life people need to access and be > able to apply the standard tools of our society. Not being able to > access or manipulate ICT creates a disadvantage to those without > access or skills. > > The St. Christopher House Community Learning Network is about > enhancing people's ability to use computers and the Internet to engage > in meaningful social activities. > Thanks - I'll pass your comment on. This will be useful as the PHP project they're working on is to build a services/resources information portal and accessibily should definitely be a requirement. BTW: how does an ALT tag display in a text browser? Also: this looks a lot better in links (aka elinks) than in lynx. Didn't try w3m. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 02:20:15 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:20:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: St. Christopher House web page needs alt tags, was RE: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <20030830002206.1B4CE739DF-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20030830002206.1B4CE739DF@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > BTW: how does an ALT tag display in a text browser?

    [bar]

    looks like this in lynx: [bar] > Also: this looks a lot better in links (aka elinks) than in lynx. Didn't > try w3m. elinks??? whazzat? is it javascript enabled? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 03:00:52 2003 From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Windows refund: UNstymied In-Reply-To: <26476.216.138.194.32.1062185845.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <26476.216.138.194.32.1062185845.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Keith Mastin wrote: > >> http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html > I agree to where I've been sseing this thread going, but I have a question... > > Where will this all lead to? We send a petition, they look at it and Tongue firmly planted in cheek...: Imagine a person X and a group Y, vendor A. X must agree to document, document, document! (as in original linuxtoday article; anyone have that reference?) Where I see this going is this (t = #days): t=0: -1) X and Y agree on a course of action. t=1: 0) X starts process with vendor. t=30 1) Y: set up a web page offering help for DIYselfers. t=60 2) X and A go to small claims court t=60.5 3) X and Y party t=61 4) Y posts newsblitz: 1 peson helped t=65 5) repeat steps 0-5 with 10**i more people. The process will evolve, but not much. At the end of 111th student, Y should have iron-clad method for profit extraction. (If we bottle it, we can sell the company for $$$$$$$... 8) Y can give "refund science" diplomas to XXXXXXXXXs. Y can sell "refund science" tshirts for fun...draising. --->The real benefit is that Y and X learn how to DIY.<--- > Dell is a business, so they make decisions based on the bottom line. > future bottom line or they won't budge. Why should they if it isn't > plesing to shareholders? t=180: A gives up the fight and redrafts "licence" after 1111th refund scientist graduates t=181: global linux user party (A drops by for a beer, too) "pleasing to the bottom line" = "no negative publicity" + $199 x 1111 $199 x 1111 = 221089 displeasures to shareholders. This comes from *bottom line* profits, not revenues. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 05:22:25 2003 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 01:22:25 -0400 Subject: Interpret Network Communication Message-ID: <200308300122.26388.marc@lijour.net> Hi, I need a nice program to listen to the traffic between my machine to the outside. Nice output welcome. Any recommandations? Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 05:31:17 2003 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 01:31:17 -0400 Subject: Interpret Network Communication In-Reply-To: <200308300122.26388.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308300122.26388.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200308300131.18673.marc@lijour.net> Le 30 Ao??t 2003 01:22, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) a ??crit : > Hi, > > I need a nice program to listen to the traffic between my machine to the > outside. > Nice output welcome. > > Any recommandations? > > Marc Never mind. I found with ettercap everything I needed. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 05:43:13 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 01:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Interpret Network Communication In-Reply-To: <200308300122.26388.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308300122.26388.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Aug 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote: > Hi, > > I need a nice program to listen to the traffic between my machine to the > outside. > Nice output welcome. > > Any recommandations? ethereal. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 11:54:27 2003 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 07:54:27 -0400 Subject: The most recent meeting In-Reply-To: <3F4F8B83.2020700-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3F4F8B83.2020700@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Friday, August 29, 2003, at 01:21 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: > I have these visions of some poor journalist standing at the front of > an auditorium with his notebook on a podium with 50 people yelling > stuff like "run ldconfig!", "Pick the frame buffer X driver!", "No, > the OTHER left mouse button!", "You need devfs for that to work!", > "'ln' dash 's', no! 'ln' _space_ dash 's'!" You're psychic! The only way it could have been worse is if we'd given the poor guy a wedgie on his way out. I am absolutely amazed that his follow-up article wasn't a complete dismissal of Linux, TLUG, and everything else that even contains the letter 'L'. :-) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 13:22:20 2003 From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:22:20 -0400 Subject: Interpret Network Communication In-Reply-To: <200308300122.26388.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200308300122.26388.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200308300922.20917.fraser@wehave.net> On Saturday 30 August 2003 01:22, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote: > I need a nice program to listen to the traffic between my machine to the > outside. > Nice output welcome. > > Any recommandations? Depends what it is that you want to know. If you're looking for statistics on how much traffic each machine and/or protocol generates ntop is excellent for that. If you're looking to rip open packet to see what's inside then you'll need to look at other programs. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 14:59:21 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:59:21 -0500 Subject: The most recent meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030830145921.146354FCFC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 07:54:27 -0400, "Phillip Mills" said: > On Friday, August 29, 2003, at 01:21 PM, Mike Kallies wrote: > > > I have these visions of some poor journalist standing at the front of > > an auditorium with his notebook on a podium with 50 people yelling > > stuff like "run ldconfig!", "Pick the frame buffer X driver!", "No, > > the OTHER left mouse button!", "You need devfs for that to work!", > > "'ln' dash 's', no! 'ln' _space_ dash 's'!" > > You're psychic! The only way it could have been worse is if we'd given > the poor guy a wedgie on his way out. > I am absolutely amazed that his follow-up article wasn't a complete > dismissal of Linux, TLUG, and everything else that even contains the > letter 'L'. :-) Maybe we should have pointed out that non-commercial Linux software is mostly distributed in rpm or deb format and installed by way of package managers and therefore actually simpler than installing on Windows. We could have, by way of contrast, demonstrated installing AbiWord or OpenOffice (from a local source) with Synaptic. Also, we could have demonstrated with Xandros where Crossover Office setup is a breeze - just pick it off a 'Start Menu' item. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 15:12:09 2003 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 10:12:09 -0500 Subject: St. Christopher House web page needs alt tags, was RE: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20030830151209.7B22874B2A@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:20:15 -0400 (EDT), "Max Blanco" said: > On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > > > BTW: how does an ALT tag display in a text browser? > >

    > [bar] >

    > > looks like this in lynx: > > [bar] > > > Also: this looks a lot better in links (aka elinks) than in lynx. Didn't > > try w3m. > > elinks??? whazzat? is it javascript enabled? > Links was a text web browser project. Elinks is a fork of links but is now accepted as a replacement for links. It does table layout (though no javascript) so it's really much more suitable for browsing modern web pages than lynx. The Debian package name is 'links-ssl' ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 16:16:50 2003 From: jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jay) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:16:50 -0400 Subject: Help With Home Server Message-ID: <002101c36fdb$60d63d80$6200a8c0@jrccomputer> Hi all... Several months ago I asked for recommendations on an ISP that will allow you to run a server of the connection. I eventually chose istop.com. Now I have a DNS question. My IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com.Now my questions :-) Do I ask them to change that to my hostname (hostname.domain.ca). When I purchase my domain, do I set up the DNS information to point to the istop nameserver, or do I point it to my server and run (for example) Bind? Thanks Jay -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 16:24:06 2003 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:24:06 -0400 Subject: Help With Home Server In-Reply-To: <002101c36fdb$60d63d80$6200a8c0-s1KvLpT30YgZj6S/xCzO9g@public.gmane.org> References: <002101c36fdb$60d63d80$6200a8c0@jrccomputer> Message-ID: <3F522126.4010302@alteeve.com> When you register your domain (domain.com/ca) you will have to specify which DNS servers will have the zone of authority (ZOA, IIRC). Whatever that server specifies is what will go. I do not believe you -have- to tell Istop, as they should see that domain as a seperate entity from what they have recorded (jay.tor.istop.com). You can have multiple DNS names for one machine. All this said, please differ if someone answers with more authority than I. Madison Jay wrote: > Hi all... > > Several months ago I asked for recommendations on an ISP that will allow > you to run a server of the connection. I eventually chose istop.com. Now > I have a DNS question. My IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com.Now my > questions :-) > > Do I ask them to change that to my hostname (hostname.domain.ca). > > When I purchase my domain, do I set up the DNS information to point to > the istop nameserver, or do I point it to my server and run (for > example) Bind? > > Thanks > > Jay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 16:49:49 2003 From: jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jay) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:49:49 -0400 Subject: Help With Home Server References: <002101c36fdb$60d63d80$6200a8c0@jrccomputer> <3F522126.4010302@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <001301c36fdf$fc45f860$6200a8c0@jrccomputer> okay, for my DNS registration I have the following options Primary DNS Host: Primary DNS IP: Secondary DNS Host: Secondary DNS IP: 3... 4.. It tells me I need at least 2. Should I fill them both out with the same information both pointing to my machine/IP. Thats what I did? I also asked istop to change from jay.tor.istop.com to hostname.domain.ca Nowhere does it ask for ZOA or anything like that? I assume that is when I set up the DNS on my machine with BIND or whatever software? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Madison Kelly" To: Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Help With Home Server > When you register your domain (domain.com/ca) you will have to specify > which DNS servers will have the zone of authority (ZOA, IIRC). Whatever > that server specifies is what will go. I do not believe you -have- to > tell Istop, as they should see that domain as a seperate entity from > what they have recorded (jay.tor.istop.com). You can have multiple DNS > names for one machine. > > All this said, please differ if someone answers with more authority than I. > > Madison > > Jay wrote: > > Hi all... > > > > Several months ago I asked for recommendations on an ISP that will allow > > you to run a server of the connection. I eventually chose istop.com. Now > > I have a DNS question. My IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com.Now my > > questions :-) > > > > Do I ask them to change that to my hostname (hostname.domain.ca). > > > > When I purchase my domain, do I set up the DNS information to point to > > the istop nameserver, or do I point it to my server and run (for > > example) Bind? > > > > Thanks > > > > Jay > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From brian-hkt3R1SlsOrYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 17:55:17 2003 From: brian-hkt3R1SlsOrYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Brian K Garel) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 13:55:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server) Message-ID: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan> Hi All, I am looking to stop giving Ted Roger$ all my money and was looking around for a decent service. I saw Jay mention istop.com and was curious if anyone else has any other suggestions. I'm up in Newmarket so I should have access to pretty much anything. Keys here are Price, reliability, and they don't care if you're running servers.....oh yeah....and the support deparment must know something more than how to spell dns! LOL Any suggestions are very much appreciated! Cheers, Brian K. Garel brian-hkt3R1SlsOrYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it and remove all doubt." -Mark Twain ----------------------------------------- Original Message: From: Madison Kelly To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sent: Sun Aug 31 12:26:21 EDT 2003 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Help With Home Server When you register your domain (domain.com/ca) you will have to specify which DNS servers will have the zone of authority (ZOA, IIRC). Whatever that server specifies is what will go. I do not believe you -have- to tell Istop, as they should see that domain as a seperate entity from what they have recorded (jay.tor.istop.com). You can have multiple DNS names for one machine. All this said, please differ if someone answers with more authority than I. Madison Jay wrote: > Hi all... > > Several months ago I asked for recommendations on an ISP that will allow > you to run a server of the connection. I eventually chose istop.com. Now > I have a DNS question. My IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com.Now my > questions :-) > > Do I ask them to change that to my hostname (hostname.domain.ca). > > When I purchase my domain, do I set up the DNS information to point to > the istop nameserver, or do I point it to my server and run (for > example) Bind? > > Thanks > > Jay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using DeskNow Lite - Free mail & collaboration server http://www.desknow.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 18:01:45 2003 From: tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Matthew M. Gamble) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:01:45 -0400 Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server) References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan> Message-ID: <041401c36fe9$f2020e70$070010ac@pyro> --- WARRING - SHAMELESS PLUG --- Well, as the Senior Network Admin for Echo Online (www.eol.ca) I can say (with some bias) that our service is decent and our support usually knows what they are doing. On top of that, we just removed our bandwidth caps from DSL. You can run whatever servers you want, as long you don't run an open relay :-) --- END SHAMELESS PLUG --- Regards, M. Gamble ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian K Garel" To: Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 1:55 PM Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re: [TLUG]: Help With Home Server) > Hi All, > > I am looking to stop giving Ted Roger$ all my money and was looking around for a decent service. I saw Jay mention istop.com and was curious if anyone else has any other suggestions. I'm up in Newmarket so I should have access to pretty much anything. Keys here are Price, reliability, and they don't care if you're running servers.....oh yeah....and the support deparment must know something more than how to spell dns! LOL > > Any suggestions are very much appreciated! > > Cheers, > > Brian K. Garel > brian-hkt3R1SlsOrYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org > > "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it and remove all doubt." > -Mark Twain > > ----------------------------------------- > Original Message: > From: Madison Kelly > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Sent: Sun Aug 31 12:26:21 EDT 2003 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Help With Home Server > When you register your domain (domain.com/ca) you will have to specify > which DNS servers will have the zone of authority (ZOA, IIRC). Whatever > that server specifies is what will go. I do not believe you -have- to > tell Istop, as they should see that domain as a seperate entity from > what they have recorded (jay.tor.istop.com). You can have multiple DNS > names for one machine. > > All this said, please differ if someone answers with more authority than I. > > Madison > > Jay wrote: > > Hi all... > > > > Several months ago I asked for recommendations on an ISP that will allow > > you to run a server of the connection. I eventually chose istop.com. Now > > I have a DNS question. My IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com.Now my > > questions :-) > > > > Do I ask them to change that to my hostname (hostname.domain.ca). > > > > When I purchase my domain, do I set up the DNS information to point to > > the istop nameserver, or do I point it to my server and run (for > > example) Bind? > > > > Thanks > > > > Jay > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- > This message was sent using DeskNow Lite - Free mail & collaboration server > http://www.desknow.com > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 16:10:14 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: 31 Aug 2003 12:10:14 -0400 Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server) In-Reply-To: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM-Mo3A3Rqcn0o@public.gmane.org> References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan> Message-ID: <1062345942.18946.1.camel@yoda> On Sun, 2003-08-31 at 13:55, Brian K Garel wrote: > Hi All, > > I am looking to stop giving Ted Roger$ all my money and was looking around for a decent service. I saw Jay mention istop.com and was curious if anyone else has any other suggestions. I'm up in Newmarket so I should have access to pretty much anything. Keys here are Price, reliability, and they don't care if you're running servers.....oh yeah....and the support deparment must know something more than how to spell dns! LOL > > Any suggestions are very much appreciated! > > Cheers, > > Brian K. Garel > brian-hkt3R1SlsOrYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org > > "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it and remove all doubt." > -Mark Twain I've had great experience with Sentex. Great support, good prices, and excellent reliability. Check it out at: http://www.sentex.net Kareem -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 16:10:31 2003 From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata) Date: 31 Aug 2003 12:10:31 -0400 Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server) In-Reply-To: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM-Mo3A3Rqcn0o@public.gmane.org> References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan> Message-ID: <1062346214.18946.3.camel@yoda> On Sun, 2003-08-31 at 13:55, Brian K Garel wrote: > Hi All, > > I am looking to stop giving Ted Roger$ all my money and was looking around for a decent service. I saw Jay mention istop.com and was curious if anyone else has any other suggestions. I'm up in Newmarket so I should have access to pretty much anything. Keys here are Price, reliability, and they don't care if you're running servers.....oh yeah....and the support deparment must know something more than how to spell dns! LOL > > Any suggestions are very much appreciated! > > Cheers, > > Brian K. Garel > brian-hkt3R1SlsOrYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org > > "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it and remove all doubt." > -Mark Twain I've had great experience with Sentex. Great support, good prices, and excellent reliability. Check it out at: http://www.sentex.net Kareem -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 21:36:42 2003 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:36:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Help With Home Server In-Reply-To: <001301c36fdf$fc45f860$6200a8c0-s1KvLpT30YgZj6S/xCzO9g@public.gmane.org> References: <002101c36fdb$60d63d80$6200a8c0@jrccomputer> <3F522126.4010302@alteeve.com> <001301c36fdf$fc45f860$6200a8c0@jrccomputer> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, Jay wrote: > okay, for my DNS registration I have the following options > > Primary DNS Host: > Primary DNS IP: > Secondary DNS Host: > Secondary DNS IP: > > It tells me I need at least 2. Should I fill them both out with the same > information both pointing to my machine/IP. Thats what I did? Hi Jay. You need to arrange for 2 (or more) machines with static addresses to act as authorative servers for you. If you home Linux box has a static address, then you can use it at one (as ling as it is ok within the AUP). Your ISP may well be able to run the other one. Alternatively you could look at EveryDNS (http://www.everydns.net). You can run your primary & secondary nameservers there for free. For my domains I have the primary namserver on my own box and use EveryDNS as secondaries. Once you have the 2 machines (wherever they happen to be) correctly configured, you can "delegate" to these machines and your domain goes live. > I also asked istop to change from jay.tor.istop.com to hostname.domain.ca They could change the reverse lookup to point to hostname.domain.ca but it isn't strickly necessary for the functioning of your domain. Just as long as you have some sort of reverse going. > Nowhere does it ask for ZOA or anything like that? I assume that is when I SOA (Start of Authority) is an important part of the zonefile and includes things like the origin (primary nameserver) and the serial (a number that tells authorative servers if their copy of the zonefile is current). There are a lot of ways to subtly get dns configuration wrong (something like 30% of fortune 1000 companies have their dns somewhat misconfigured). I'd suggest reading up a bit more on how dns works to make sure you get it going properly, and I'd suggest giving serious consideration to EveryDNS. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 31 22:46:40 2003 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:46:40 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: If someone sells laptops w/o Windows installed In-Reply-To: <20030829153844.GK21637-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20030829140457.GI21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20030829153844.GK21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Ok, here are two brands: IPC - older 'disappearing' brand ? 2GHz 256MB 20GB CD-RW+DVD 15" TFT, touchpad, looks very much like a Dell clone ? but isn't one. There are no Dell parts in it. The price is no longer of actuality. Daewoo - 950MHz 256MB 20GB 14.4" TFT (?) no cd (can upgrade) but only 1.6kg (almost a notebook), comes with Lindows and OpenOffice installed, and xtra lithium battery, 3xUSB, ether and modem builtin, all supported by Lindows, for about US$1000 cash or 6 months on credit (remember we have serious taxes here - like 18% vat on everything and more funnies - in your parts the price on discount will likely be 60-70% of what we see here). Interesting, this is the first laptop loaded with Linux that comes from a local shop chain I see here. Good timing for this thread ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 22:13:46 2003 From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:13:46 -0400 Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead? In-Reply-To: <20030825132949.2037.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org> References: <20030825132949.2037.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> Message-ID: <3F4A8A1A.2050600@penguin.8inchfloppy.com> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >While I hate to keep taking SCO's side in things since I fully support >the Linux movement I don't think any of SCO's long time customers care >wheather or not SCO's web site is up or not since Openserver has some >machines with verified uptimes of 5, 10 and 17+ years without reboot. >If any machine is repeatedly attacked by professionals it will crash. >RickT > > Interesting! Especially since Openserver has barely been around for 5 years, let alone 10 and 17+ years. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 20:33:22 2003 From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:33:22 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: <3F4BC412.8020101@penguin.8inchfloppy.com> > BTW... and this is entirely speculation... what happens to software if > the > copyright owner is defunct? It's not like SCO is going to leave a will or > an estate. Is it at this point that M$ buys the ...what? ...copyrights? > ...SCO? outright for nothing in a short stock trade? Remember this? > > NOW it's getting interesting! This might be very very important. SCO is pretty much a starving, almost-dead, shrivelled, emaciated near-corpse and for all that, is making quite a racket. They haven't been able to ship a compelling product in years. Any time I've ever had to support SCO Unix I've hated it. ALL of the other UNIXes are much more amenable to easy administration, and a lot more of the usual tools you'd expect are there. Anyway, what happens if SCO folds up and goes out of business? How bad would it be if Microsoft bought the leftovers of SCO and decided to continue the fight, just for fun? Could Microsoft afford to litigate Linux into oblivion? At least in the US anyway? Finally, would it be possible to get concerned Linux users together to buy SCO? Or at least to buy the scraps if they folded up? Maybe then we could officially bequeath UNIX to the public domain... If each angry concerned Linux user out there put $100 into this cause, could we do it? Dave... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 26 20:34:03 2003 From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:34:03 -0400 Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead Message-ID: <3F4BC43B.9020902@penguin.8inchfloppy.com> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > While I hate to keep taking SCO's side in things since I fully support > the Linux movement I don't think any of SCO's long time customers care > wheather or not SCO's web site is up or not since Openserver has some > machines with verified uptimes of 5, 10 and 17+ years without reboot. > If any machine is repeatedly attacked by professionals it will crash. > RickT > > Interesting! Especially since Openserver has barely been around for 5 years, let alone 10 and 17+ years. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 15:58:19 2003 From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:58:19 -0400 Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead Message-ID: <3F50C99B.4050604@penguin.8inchfloppy.com> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > While I hate to keep taking SCO's side in things since I fully support > the Linux movement I don't think any of SCO's long time customers care > wheather or not SCO's web site is up or not since Openserver has some > machines with verified uptimes of 5, 10 and 17+ years without reboot. > If any machine is repeatedly attacked by professionals it will crash. > RickT > > Interesting! Especially since Openserver has barely been around for 5 years, let alone 10 and 17+ years. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 15:58:43 2003 From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:58:43 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case Message-ID: <3F50C9B3.30108@penguin.8inchfloppy.com> > BTW... and this is entirely speculation... what happens to software if > the > copyright owner is defunct? It's not like SCO is going to leave a will or > an estate. Is it at this point that M$ buys the ...what? ...copyrights? > ...SCO? outright for nothing in a short stock trade? Remember this? > > NOW it's getting interesting! This might be very very important. SCO is pretty much a starving, almost-dead, shrivelled, emaciated near-corpse and for all that, is making quite a racket. They haven't been able to ship a compelling product in years. Any time I've ever had to support SCO Unix I've hated it. ALL of the other UNIXes are much more amenable to easy administration, and a lot more of the usual tools you'd expect are there. Anyway, what happens if SCO folds up and goes out of business? How bad would it be if Microsoft bought the leftovers of SCO and decided to continue the fight, just for fun? Could Microsoft afford to litigate Linux into oblivion? At least in the US anyway? Finally, would it be possible to get concerned Linux users together to buy SCO? Or at least to buy the scraps if they folded up? Maybe then we could officially bequeath UNIX to the public domain... If each angry concerned Linux user out there put $100 into this cause, could we do it? Dave... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 25 21:48:35 2003 From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:48:35 -0400 Subject: SCO has valid case In-Reply-To: <26393.216.138.194.32.1061742337.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org> References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <26393.216.138.194.32.1061742337.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> Message-ID: <3F4A8433.6020908@penguin.8inchfloppy.com> >BTW... and this is entirely speculation... what happens to software if the >copyright owner is defunct? It's not like SCO is going to leave a will or >an estate. Is it at this point that M$ buys the ...what? ...copyrights? >...SCO? outright for nothing in a short stock trade? Remember this? > > NOW it's getting interesting! This might be very very important. SCO is pretty much a starving, almost-dead, shrivelled, emaciated near-corpse and for all that, is making quite a racket. They haven't been able to ship a compelling product in years. Any time I've ever had to support SCO Unix I've hated it. ALL of the other UNIXes are much more amenable to easy administration, and a lot more of the usual tools you'd expect are there. Anyway, what happens if SCO folds up and goes out of business? How bad would it be if Microsoft bought the leftovers of SCO and decided to continue the fight, just for fun? Could Microsoft afford to litigate Linux into oblivion? At least in the US anyway? Finally, would it be possible to get concerned Linux users together to buy SCO? Or at least to buy the scraps if they folded up? Maybe then we could officially bequeath UNIX to the public domain... If each angry concerned Linux user out there put $100 into this cause, could we do it? Dave... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 07:28:40 2003 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:28:40 -0400 Subject: Netscape lock & purge Message-ID: <3F4717A8.8E15636@onlink.net> Netscape is giving the following error: "Netsacape has detected a /home/chris/.netscape/lock file..." It goes on to suggest I delete the offending file and restart Netscape. However, ls -a /home/chris/.netscape reveals no such file. The only out-of-the ordinary thing I've done recently is to load my saved mail from a backup after a recent re-image (instead of kissing my old mail goodbye as I usually do). Probelm 2 is that my Netscape mail reader won't delete the mail off the server even though I have selected 'When deleting a messge locally, remove it from the server' in the mail preferneces. I have to manually remove the email through webmail. Any ideas would be appreciated. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 30 00:32:19 2003 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 20:32:19 -0400 Subject: St. Christopher House web page needs alt tags, was RE: Learning PHP In-Reply-To: <20030830002206.1B4CE739DF-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <20030830002206.1B4CE739DF@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030829203036.020d0cd0@mail.interlog.com> At 07:22 PM 08/29/2003 -0500, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: >BTW: how does an ALT tag display in a text browser? > >Also: this looks a lot better in links (aka elinks) than in lynx. Didn't >try w3m. ALT tags for images displayed in side square brackets (ie. [ and ]) with the stuff between the two brackets consisting of the text of the ALT tag. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 23 18:33:20 2003 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:33:20 -0400 Subject: [Fwd:Netscape lock & purge] Message-ID: <3F47B36F.9BEBFE30@onlink.net> A third problem is that I can't import bookmarks from a saved copy on a floppy. I know that the linux version of Netscape doesn't have the 'import bookmarks' (or somesuch), so I overwrote /home/chris/.netscape/bookmarks.html with the one from the floppy. I know the bookmarks are OK, because they are there when I issue, netscape /home/chris/.netscape/bookmarks.html It seems that my netscape is not looking there for the bookmarks. does this have something to do witht the lock file error I am getting? -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Chris Aitken Subject: [TLUG]: Netscape lock & purge Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:28:40 -0400 Size: 2437 URL: