<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 12:13 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <<a href="mailto:talk@gtalug.org" target="_blank">talk@gtalug.org</a>> wrote:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">When the Raspberry Pi first came out, it was appealing to think of it as <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>an ultra-inexpensive computer for your desktop (perhaps as a very secondary unit) or to play media on your TV.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">I never thought the first two or three revs had enough power to do this. They were a good fast way to learn Linux without reconfiguring a Windows PC, which is mainly how I used them. I tried OpenELEC and some of the other media distributions and was frustrated. IIRC you had to pay separately to unlock hardware support for certain codecs.<br>
Out in the world, paired with cheap peripherals they were a ground-breakingly inexpensive way to create a WWW-access desktop.
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Note: this wasn't the intent of the Raspberry Pi designers. They wanted a totally hackable, cheap, simple (as possible) computer to encourage kids <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>to dive into computing. They fondly remembered they youth spent hacking <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>and mastering BBC Micro and other home/educational computers.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">That may have been how they started out, but things evolved. As a pure hobby/maker platform they had solid competition from Arduino, but as a cheap computer they had the field mainly to themselves for quite a while before we saw workalikes like the BeagleBoard.<br></div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
There was little competition at the price point of the Raspberry Pi.</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">This self-awareness of early near-monopoly status went to their heads. Wearing multiple hats and in many different contexts I found the Foundation impossible to work with as a partner. This opened a window for others in the space who were hungrier.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">- a bunch of new SBCs inspired by the Pi have been released. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages compared with Raspberry Pi models. <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>None has the depth of support of the Raspberry Pi.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">True that none of the others could match the community around the Pi. That meant the Pi could have multiple custom Linux distributions for it while with other boards you mostly had to trust the vendor's distro. But at a corporate entity IMO the Foundation offered nothing that I would even charitably call "support".<br></div></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
- Raspberry Pi models improved a lot but the price crept up. Note: older models are still available at roughly original prices.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">They came out with the Pico which seemed like little more than more aggressively competing with Arduino. And the Zero looks more like an embedded device than a hobbyist one.<br>Then, after a year the audience were hoping for an upgraded board from the V4, all they gave us in 2020 was that embedded-in-a-keyboard Model 400 crap. The V5 didn't come out till 2023.</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">As far as I was concerned all of the innovation in that space was coming from the case manufacturers.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
- streaming media players were introduced at RP prices. They play better with the many forms of DRM that infest the services.</blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Used as media devices, they also have much better UIs, remote control support, etc.<br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">IMO the Pi was never a credible player in this field. Nobody ever used them as the core of a pirate media device.<br></div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
- tiny x86 boxes have become a lot better and cheaper<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Just last week my technophonic friend needed a new no-frills PC to replace their decade-old Dell. I helped them get an Intel NUC on sale at Canada Computers. Small as anything, powerful enough for anything except gaming, less than $600 complete, includes Windows and runs it well, and it still has a 3.5" audio jack. A Pi 5 kit with all parts is about $250, but that still means you have to assemble it yourself (with the added complexity of needing a CPU fan) and primary storage is still a MicroSD card.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
My current opinions:<br>
<br>
- instead of a desktop computer, consider a laptop.</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">I would only give that advice to people I dislike. I would say to avoid laptops unless portability is a requirement.<br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">There are SO MANY reasons;</div><ul><li style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Desktop RAM tends to be cheaper and more expandable.r</li><li style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Desktops can upgrade their GPU to enable gaming, video editing or AI assist; laptops can't.</li><li style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Picking the right keyboard for me is critical as it's where I spend most time interfacing with my computing world.</li><li style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Ditto screens. What if you want yours higher resolution, or larger, or curved?<br></li><li style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Most laptop keyboards and speakers SUCK. Ergonomics? Forget them. And not everyone likes trackpads as their pointing device.</li></ul><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">The main reason for buying a laptop that's not mobile is for simplicity. The components are all pre-matched (regardless if the matches are optimal) and pre-assembled, including peripherals. If you have any interest in expandability, gaming, AI, or decent input devices, a laptop isn't your best bet.</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default"> </div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> That market is much larger and the competition has produced some quite good option.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">The simplicity means that you can probably buy a laptop easily at Walmart or Bestbuy.</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">As is frequently the case there are always tradeoffs as one chooses their balance between simplicity and flexibility.<br></div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">As for me... I have zero interest in the Raspberry Pi now. Its day is done and its producers are jerks.<br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">If anything, I am hoping to see the next generation of commonly-used Raspberry Pi style experimenter boards to be using RISC-V instead of ARM.<br></div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">- Evan<br></div><br></div><br></div></div>