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<p>I think both Hugh and I have associated Lenovo's name with the T series: I have a T440p that replaced a previous T-series thinkpad and did superior service. I'll either replace it with a Framework, or another T.</p>
<p>--dave<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/16/23 02:51, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:<br>
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<div>D<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">isclaimer: I have an MBA in marketing. I studied this stuff at length.</span></div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 12:01 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <<a href="mailto:talk@gtalug.org" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">talk@gtalug.org</a>> wrote:<br>
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Brands matter.</blockquote>
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More to the point: SOME brands matter. And they matter to varying degrees.<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Search for anything on Aliexpress and you'll find hundreds of brands, most of which will be totally irrelevant to your choice.</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
A memorable brand requires LOTS of investment. And different companies treat their brands with diverse strategy;</div>
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Compare Nestlé (which has its name on top of every product in its family) with Mondeléz (whose ownership of most of its brands is buried in the small print).</div>
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They are meant to telegraph certain things to the <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
</span>customer. Of course the brand's meaning can be changed: it isn't a <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
</span>contract.<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Sometimes that change is unintentional. 🙂<br>
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The perception of a brand in the potential customer base takes a long time <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
</span>to develop. It is cultivated by marketing, but not just marketing.</blockquote>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Companies will go to great lengths to define their various brands; what they are supposed to mean, who is their target audience, etc. When was the last time a beer or car ad actually talked about the product?<br>
The next step is actually executing that strategy based on quality, price, distribution (who can sell it) and promotion.<br>
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Think of how Loblaws, over the last 40 years, has elevated the house brand <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
</span>"President's Choice" to actually have a premium connotation.<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
More successfully, it has established its other house brand, the black-and-yellow "no name", as its lower-cost option (sometimes with the same contents as President's Choice 🙂).</div>
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It's even segmented its many store brands (No Frills, Loblaws, Zehrs, Fortinos, Superstore) by audience and local economy.</div>
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In the computer field, IBM's and then Lenovo's Think* brands have <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
</span>commanded tremendous loyalty, only occasionally misplaced.</blockquote>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Brands are assets with value that can be bought and sold. IBM, which established the "Think{}" brand, sold it along with its whole PC business to Lenovo in 2005. Lenovo simply acquired that which IBM had built up over decades.<br>
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A large part <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
</span>of that is that the Think* devices have mostly lived up to their implicit <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
</span>promise.<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Some have.</div>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Traditionally models beginning with T were IBM's powerhouse Thinkpads, X were the ultralights, i were multimedia, and all were made in Japan. Then Lenovo started coming out with cheaper lines to be able to compete with low-end units while maintaining the brand
identity, and manufactured in Indian Mexico and China. Before the Lenovo purchase the only lower-cost models were in the R line.<br>
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Lenovo's Think* brands are mostly solid conservative business machines.</blockquote>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
That's the brand IBM built, and that Lenovo maintained for some models. For others, they "diluted the brand", something that happens far too often. But hey, their marketing worked on you.<br>
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Most Think* systems that support Windows also support Linux. (There are <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
</span>Think* things that don't: non-computers and Android or ChromeOS <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
</span>computers.) The markups are high and the discounts can be large.</blockquote>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
IIRC IBM (and later Lenovo) have had generally two separate lines, for business and consumer models. The former were more expensive (but generally higher build quality and specs) and the latter aggressively priced to compete with HP, Dell and others.<br>
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+ part of that is that thin and light is something a majority of customers want but it has to come at the cost of serviceability. ThinkPads were known to be rugged as tanks but tanks are heavy<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Some. The X series I had was an ultralight.<br>
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+ part of that is users don't like change.</blockquote>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
That's not universal, especially in the field of tech where things can change so fast (like whether a laptop needs a built-in CD/DVD player). Sometimes the users demand change, and conservative approaches don't survive.<br>
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+ some features (wired ethernet port, serial port, VGA port) are really niche now but those who want them really want them<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
I'm quite certain that Lenovo does market research to tell them what features are needed in new models, and sales figures to tell them what features are no longer desirable.<br>
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- the ThinkBook line really seems to be exploiting the brand without matching the values<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Different brand. Different audience. Different expectations. There are indirect ties (the use of Think, the black color and styling), but it's not a Thinkpad, it's something else.
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- ThinkPad displays are often mediocre. Not bright enough (nits), not great colour gamut. Inexcusable in an expensive notebook.<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
"Thinkpad" now includes a massive diversity of quality, cost, features, tradeoffs and target audience. Not sure that such a sweeping statement can be useful anymore.<br>
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- the ThinkPad Android Tablet was a disaster that I got fooled by.<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
There have been in the past x86-based Thinkpad tablets that have been well regarded. The current Yoga line works nicely for some.<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Lenovo Android devices are mostly produced for the Chinese domestic audience and only unoficially get sold internationally. By and large Lenovo uses its Motorola brand for internationally-sold Android devices. Apparently this year they're looking to come out
with a "Thinkphone" to capitalize on the brand. I'll withhold judgment until I see the reviews.<br>
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Lenovo's Legend brand, as I understand it, is aimed at gamers. It is <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
</span>intended to compete on price and performance. It isn't aimed at you or <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
</span>me. I've never bought one.<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Over the years a LOT of Thinkpad models have not been aimed at you or me.</div>
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I'm not sure I'm getting the point here.<br>
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Apple has a great brand too. Sometimes it seems like a cult.<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Apple knows its audience well and gives that audience what it wants (notwithstanding that every brand has its clunker from time to time).<br>
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Dell branding confuses me. Ditto Acer.<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
You're being way too kind to Lenovo. They're all producing a wide range of models for all needs from student to developer to gamer to frequent flyer to commodities broker. Most have high-end models, low-end models, etc. Lenovo may be better at naming its models
but they're all competing in a very tight market with mostly the same component parts. I find that going online to Lenovo, Dell and HP enables you to indicate what you need and they point you to relevant offerings. In my own experience I can't get caught up
in sub-brands and model numbers. I'll look at specs and I'll read reviews. Personally I buy my PCs in a store, where non-spec issues like balance, build quality, screen readability and keyboard feel can be tried out. FWIW my desktops have all been custom-assembled
and my laptops have been Asus and Acer. They have served me well so I will look at them first if I need something new, but there is not much to separate the brands and loyalty is pointless unless you're a high-volume buyer.<br>
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<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">
Don't get caught up in branding. These days PCs are nearly a commodity and there's very little to separate the makers except for after-sale issues such as warranty and ease of repair. The only distinctive brand here is Apple and you either buy into their world
or you don't. </div>
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- Evan<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com">dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com</a> | -- Mark Twain</pre>
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