<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>D<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">isclaimer: I have an MBA in marketing. I studied this stuff at length.</span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 12:01 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <<a href="mailto:talk@gtalug.org">talk@gtalug.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Brands matter.</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">More to the point: SOME brands matter. And they matter to varying degrees.<br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Search for anything on Aliexpress and you'll find hundreds of brands, most of which will be totally irrelevant to your choice.</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">A memorable brand requires LOTS of investment. And different companies treat their brands with diverse strategy;</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Compare Nestlé (which has its name on top of every product in its family) with Mondeléz (whose ownership of most of its brands is buried in the small print).</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default"><br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">They are meant to telegraph certain things to the <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>customer. Of course the brand's meaning can be changed: it isn't a <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>contract.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Sometimes that change is unintentional. 🙂<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
The perception of a brand in the potential customer base takes a long time <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>to develop. It is cultivated by marketing, but not just marketing.</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Companies will go to great lengths to define their various brands; what they are supposed to mean, who is their target audience, etc. When was the last time a beer or car ad actually talked about the product?<br>The next step is actually executing that strategy based on quality, price, distribution (who can sell it) and promotion.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Think of how Loblaws, over the last 40 years, has elevated the house brand <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>"President's Choice" to actually have a premium connotation.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">More successfully, it has established its other house brand, the black-and-yellow "no name", as its lower-cost option (sometimes with the same contents as President's Choice 🙂).</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">It's even segmented its many store brands (No Frills, Loblaws, Zehrs, Fortinos, Superstore) by audience and local economy.</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default"> <br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
In the computer field, IBM's and then Lenovo's Think* brands have <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>commanded tremendous loyalty, only occasionally misplaced.</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Brands are assets with value that can be bought and sold. IBM, which established the "Think{}" brand, sold it along with its whole PC business to Lenovo in 2005. Lenovo simply acquired that which IBM had built up over decades.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">A large part <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>of that is that the Think* devices have mostly lived up to their implicit <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>promise.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Some have.</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Traditionally models beginning with T were IBM's powerhouse Thinkpads, X were the ultralights, i were multimedia, and all were made in Japan. Then Lenovo started coming out with cheaper lines to be able to compete with low-end units while maintaining the brand identity, and manufactured in Indian Mexico and China. Before the Lenovo purchase the only lower-cost models were in the R line.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Lenovo's Think* brands are mostly solid conservative business machines.</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">That's the brand IBM built, and that Lenovo maintained for some models. For others, they "diluted the brand", something that happens far too often. But hey, their marketing worked on you.<br></div></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Most Think* systems that support Windows also support Linux. (There are <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>Think* things that don't: non-computers and Android or ChromeOS <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>computers.) The markups are high and the discounts can be large.</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">IIRC IBM (and later Lenovo) have had generally two separate lines, for business and consumer models. The former were more expensive (but generally higher build quality and specs) and the latter aggressively priced to compete with HP, Dell and others.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
+ part of that is that thin and light is something a majority of customers want but it has to come at the cost of serviceability. ThinkPads were known to be rugged as tanks but tanks are heavy<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Some. The X series I had was an ultralight.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
+ part of that is users don't like change.</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">That's not universal, especially in the field of tech where things can change so fast (like whether a laptop needs a built-in CD/DVD player). Sometimes the users demand change, and conservative approaches don't survive.<br></div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
+ some features (wired ethernet port, serial port, VGA port) are really niche now but those who want them really want them<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">I'm quite certain that Lenovo does market research to tell them what features are needed in new models, and sales figures to tell them what features are no longer desirable.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
- the ThinkBook line really seems to be exploiting the brand without matching the values<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Different brand. Different audience. Different expectations. There are indirect ties (the use of Think, the black color and styling), but it's not a Thinkpad, it's something else.
</div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
- ThinkPad displays are often mediocre. Not bright enough (nits), not great colour gamut. Inexcusable in an expensive notebook.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">"Thinkpad" now includes a massive diversity of quality, cost, features, tradeoffs and target audience. Not sure that such a sweeping statement can be useful anymore.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
- the ThinkPad Android Tablet was a disaster that I got fooled by.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">There have been in the past x86-based Thinkpad tablets that have been well regarded. The current Yoga line works nicely for some.<br></div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Lenovo Android devices are mostly produced for the Chinese domestic audience and only unoficially get sold internationally. By and large Lenovo uses its Motorola brand for internationally-sold Android devices. Apparently this year they're looking to come out with a "Thinkphone" to capitalize on the brand. I'll withhold judgment until I see the reviews.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Lenovo's Legend brand, as I understand it, is aimed at gamers. It is <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></span>intended to compete on price and performance. It isn't aimed at you or <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span>me. I've never bought one.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Over the years a LOT of Thinkpad models have not been aimed at you or me.</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">I'm not sure I'm getting the point here.<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Apple has a great brand too. Sometimes it seems like a cult.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Apple knows its audience well and gives that audience what it wants (notwithstanding that every brand has its clunker from time to time).<br></div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Dell branding confuses me. Ditto Acer.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">You're being way too kind to Lenovo. They're all producing a wide range of models for all needs from student to developer to gamer to frequent flyer to commodities broker. Most have high-end models, low-end models, etc. Lenovo may be better at naming its models but they're all competing in a very tight market with mostly the same component parts. I find that going online to Lenovo, Dell and HP enables you to indicate what you need and they point you to relevant offerings. In my own experience I can't get caught up in sub-brands and model numbers. I'll look at specs and I'll read reviews. Personally I buy my PCs in a store, where non-spec issues like balance, build quality, screen readability and keyboard feel can be tried out. FWIW my desktops have all been custom-assembled and my laptops have been Asus and Acer. They have served me well so I will look at them first if I need something new, but there is not much to separate the brands and loyalty is pointless unless you're a high-volume buyer.<br></div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">Don't get caught up in branding. These days PCs are nearly a commodity and there's very little to separate the makers except for after-sale issues such as warranty and ease of repair. The only distinctive brand here is Apple and you either buy into their world or you don't. </div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default"><br></div></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)" class="gmail_default">- Evan<br></div><br></div></div></div>