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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/2/20 9:59 AM, David Mason wrote:<br>
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<div dir="auto">Rust uses a reference-counting collector for
allocations that go beyond what the borrow-checker can handle.
You have to explicitly use the RC allocation. Reference
counting, as you may know is a more predictable memory
allocation technique and works well for many data structures,
such as trees (binary or otherwise). It however has problems
with cyclic data structures (doubly-linked lists, general
graphs, etc.). Since the reference-counted allocations are
explicit, it is usually not onerous for the programmer to
handle the de-allocation of these data structures. Having a
built-in RC collector is a big win over C/C++ - your effective
alternatives.
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Thanks for letting me know. Don't know if it will be solved as
that's a problem in my view.<br>
<br>
Nick<br>
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<div dir="auto">If you aren’t willing to deal with the
reference counter, your closest choices to Rust are D, Nim,
or (less close) Go. But if you look at the benchmark game
site, you’ll see that garbage-collected languages are often
a factor of 3 slower than Rust/C/C++. If that degree of
performance matters to you, I think you should use Rust
rather than C or C++. If it doesn’t, you have a plethora of
choices, including Go, Java, C#, Haskell, Python, Lisp, or
(my favoured) Smalltalk.</div>
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<div class="matchFont">../Dave</div>
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<div name="messageReplySection">On Jan 1, 2020, 6:09 PM -0500,
Nicholas Krause <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:xerofoify@gmail.com"><xerofoify@gmail.com></a>, wrote:<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/1/20 11:44 AM, David Mason
wrote:<br>
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<div dir="auto">Borrowing is entirely a compile-time
analysis. There is no runtime impact (other than the
fact that you can get away without a garbage collector -
in a safe way).
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<div dir="auto">The Learn Rust the Dangerous way article
is very good, by the way! I heartily endorse it for
the C-philes among GTALUG. If you haven’t read it, one
of the things that might convince you is that the
leaderboard for this highly-optimized n-body
simulation has Rust in the first-place <a
href="https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/performance/nbody.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/performance/nbody.html</a> -
faster than C, C++, Fortran or Ada. I’ve added it to
my list of resources for Rust: <a
href="https://cps506.scs.ryerson.ca/Resources/rust.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://cps506.scs.ryerson.ca/Resources/rust.html</a></div>
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Ownership makes sense its a compiler version of smart
pointers. My concerns are still:<br>
What about circular references in which the owner depends on
data from the child<br>
but cannot free it due to the knowledge also depending on the
parent. Binary trees<br>
are a problem here. Or you must assume like garbage collectors
this never occurs<br>
and this is one way to get memory leaks in a lot of garbage
collectors fast.<br>
<br>
Rust seems fine for a lot of things but this one case does not
seem solved at least<br>
in my knowledge or is assumed to not be a big issue and I
could be wrong but<br>
from my limited research it appears not,<br>
Nick<br>
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<div class="matchFont">../Dave</div>
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<div name="messageReplySection">On Dec 31, 2019, 4:22 PM
-0500, Nicholas Krause via talk <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:talk@gtalug.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><talk@gtalug.org></a>,
wrote:<br>
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On 12/31/19 11:57 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:<br>
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style="margin: 5px 5px; padding-left: 10px;
border-left: thin solid #d35400;">| From: Tom
Low-Shang via talk <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:talk@gtalug.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><talk@gtalug.org></a><br>
<br>
| I'm interested in your thoughts on Rust if you
attended the talk.<br>
<br>
The talk was mostly a guided creation of a program. So
I don't think<br>
that it answered any of your questions.<br>
<br>
| I'm currently learning Rust the old fashioned hacker
way (from books and<br>
| other people's code :)). My biggest mistake was
trying to use Rust with<br>
| SDL2 to display some graphics. My head still hurts
from banging it into<br>
| a wall called 'lifetimes'. :)<br>
<br>
The whole idea of borrowing etc. is fundamental to
Rust and how it<br>
ensures safety. Without garbage collection. If you
don't like or<br>
understand this approach, Rust isn't useful.<br>
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Hugh,<br>
I've a question about how borrowing is implemented
internally as it can lead<br>
to a problem, if I allow lots of memory can my program
stall because of this<br>
at the end of a block. In addition due to this does
borrow checking<br>
limit or<br>
not implement something like freelists or caching to get
better usage of the<br>
CPU cache as that's also a concern.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Nick<br>
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