<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 9:40 PM Alvin Starr via talk <<a href="mailto:talk@gtalug.org">talk@gtalug.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
This whole discussion is getting way into the weeds.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent">Well it is off topic in relation to keeping the list Linux centric,
except for the fact that Internet and cellular privacy do require
technical skills and the OP was commenting on phishing because of hosting on Linode.</p></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<br>
The point I was originally trying to make was about the crappy job
the corporations we need to depend on are doing in keeping our
information secure.<br>
<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent">InfoSec is a highly specialized technical area of computing. The
subtle nuances of computer language; machine, programming, legal and
other spoken and written languages have all been melded into a
universally misunderstood global internet corporate-speak. The OP's
issue was with phishing and they pointed out the obvious intent of
the Uniform Resource Locator sent to their email, as it was easy for
a knowledgeable person to recognize this as spear phishing when they
experienced it.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent">There is a subtle
context in the use of words. A cellular service provider or internet
provider manages infrastructure assets which are essentially owned by
the people of Canada. These Corporations lease and manage the rights
to use Broadcast Frequencies over the air and by cabling, now at
lightspeed. Ethereal considerations aside, these providers have
fiduciary duties as they manage those common assets which are used by
Canadians in order to publish and transfer information over the
airwaves, in both public and in private communications.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent">Corporations are
legal fictions. They are chartered to have the right to do business
as a person but <span style="background-color:transparent">they do not have human rights. They do business with people, either in
writings which are fictions or, by employing other people under
letters patent to do business, legal fictions. This is why a
fiduciary may be of a class of persons who is a member of the
corporation. The third party in trust. It's an original form of two factor authentication.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent">The Government
expects a natural person to be fiduciary, prudent in the sharing of
information about oneself which then could be used to defraud others.
It’s an impossible dream but none the less the law does provide for
flexible relations. It’s not a crime to be asked for your SIN, it’s
not a crime to provide your SIN but you should protect your SIN.
There are only a few organizations who have a true need to know your
sin when dealing with you. Prudent people are expected to understand
this and act accordingly.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent">Older people are
caught in the middle. The SIN is formed to fit in a wallet to be
durable and to be carried with you, typically so when a cop says, got
any id, you can say yeah here's my SIN and I work over there. That
was the social norm, with all the personal prejudices and social
injustices, class struggles and other baggage of two individuals
engaged face to face. One who works for government and one who
doesn't.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent">In a perfectly
block-chained ethereal world you would not have to hide your SIN.</p></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 12/18/19 9:24 PM, Russell Reiter via
talk wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 4:51 PM D. Hugh
Redelmeier via talk <<a href="mailto:talk@gtalug.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">talk@gtalug.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">| From: Russell Reiter
via talk <<a href="mailto:talk@gtalug.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">talk@gtalug.org</a>><br>
<br>
| I agree that many newcomers face significant barriers
through a lack of<br>
| understanding of Canada's system of administrative law
and the policies<br>
| which underpin it. However, as much we would like to
believe law concerns<br>
| itself with vulnerable folks, that is not quite correct<br>
<br>
Do you mean "administrative law"? That too is a technical
term. It<br>
refers to "the body of law that governs the activities of<br>
administrative agencies of government."</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_law" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_law</a>><br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Technically speaking, every
term used in English communications is a
technical term. In fact English is dubbed the language
of the
technocrats by some others. What I was attempting to
address was the
concept of victim blaming, as the issue was raised in
a couple of
posts.</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">There are two basic
branches of Law, Public and Private. Newcomers first
contact with
Canada is usually through an administrative agency
which vetted their
candidate application. Then they become landed and are
expected to be
able to function within the norms of Canadian law,
both public and
private, even as while they familiarize themselves
with living under
the Canadian system of established social norms. </font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">In this system,
ignorance of the law is not a defence to an outright
breach of the
law, however can be a mitigating factor in determining
cause and
effect, when it is necessary for a decider to make a
determination of
remedy for a breach of the law, as that law may be
administrated under
a Tribunal cluster regime dealing with social and
other public
justice issues. </span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Ideally the Tribunal
system allows for individual regions to set the tone
of remedy for
equitable breaches which are not criminal but have
significant
detrimental social (not necessarily financial) effect
if unchecked.
Tribunals and boards are touted as informal resolution
services. This
is supposed to spare the parties and the State the
burden of the very
high costs of court time in settlement. </font><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Not to say that
Tribunals don't have significant cost in their own
right, but they are much less than
formal court proceedings. </span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Private law
deals with formal financial remedies
for unlawful breaches of mutually agreed upon contract
terms under
privity of contract. </span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">The CRTC is one
established administrative authority of government and
actually does
govern cellular communications licensing as a trust
issue. </font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">I'd like to be clear
on this, although it's only my personal opinion, any
monies collected
in advance and held by a business owner establishes a
formal trust. Certain things have come to pass due to
the practices of phone
services bundling hardware provision with service
provision. </font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">In the
land-line days, prior to WiFi mobile cellular, the
courts forced phone
companies to allow consumers to actually be able to
purchase their own home phones
and even to hook them up inside their homes
themselves, as opposed to only renting them from the
services provider and having only the providers
technicians inspect
and repair them. </span><br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">More recently
cellular companies were forced to allow carrier
unlocking. This
is why the CRTC now want's consumer input on moving
forward with
establishing effective future regulations. Even on
this list the
right to repair is a topical issue, so administrative
law is always a
factor, whether it is immediately obvious or not.</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">From the CRTC webpage ...</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">"What is the
CRTC?</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">The Canadian
Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
(CRTC) was created
by the Parliament of Canada to regulate and supervise
broadcasting
and telecommunications in Canada. This includes the
radio,
television, cell phone, and Internet services that you
and other
Canadians rely on every day. With headquarters in the
National
Capital Region, the CRTC reports to Parliament through
the Minister
of Canadian Heritage."</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%;background:transparent"><a href="https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/acrtc/acrtc.htm" style="color:rgb(0,0,128)" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/acrtc/acrtc.htm</font></a></p>
<blockquote style="margin-left:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;border-top:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);border-right:none;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0.05cm;background:transparent">
<font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br>
I happened to read this
today:<br>
<<a href="https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-supreme-court-ruling-could-quell-chaos-surrounding-administrative-law/" style="color:rgb(0,0,128)" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.theglobeandmail.c</a>><br>
<br>
I
think that you were talking about law in general.
Administrative<br>
law only matters when you want to challenge
government administrative<br>
decisions.</font></blockquote>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:115%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Interesting. Here is an
article on the
debate relating to standards of Judicial review of
legal decisions
made by both administrative Tribunals and the Courts
of Justice.</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:115%;background:transparent"><font style="color:rgb(0,0,128)" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><a href="https://ablawg.ca/2018/07/23/the-great-divide-on-standard-of-review-in-canadian-administrative-law/" style="color:rgb(0,0,128)" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ablawg.ca/2018/07/23/the-great-divide-on-standard-of-review-in-canadian-administrative-law/</a></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:115%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">In Ontario some of the other
administrative Tribunal bodies include the Ontario
Human Rights
Tribunal and the Landlord Tenant Board. Both of these
administrative
agencies and many others were recently clustered under
a new umbrella
name as Tribunals Ontario, </font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:115%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">A great deal of Canadians
day to day
business is dealt with by administrative Tribunals,
but I don't think
even the Supreme Court couldn't help you with a
remedy, if you were
expected to understand it's not wise to share your
personal SIN under
certain circumstances and you did so anyway. </font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:115%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">The problems newcomers face
such as
language and financial barriers are somewhat
alleviated by the
creation of Non Government Organizations as settlement
agencies. But
the demand on training and information services is
high, the costs of
service delivery are rising and there is a significant
shortage of
funding to be able to engage enough skilled
individuals to act in
counselling, training and educational roles. </font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:115%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">I always think back to the
writers A &
H Toffler and their original work Future Shock when I
sense that
language use is changing too rapidly for me to fully
grasp the subtle
and contextual nuances of that changing language as it
is used in
communications, legal or other.</font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:115%;background:transparent"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock</a></font></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">--</div>
<div dir="auto">Russell</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
</blockquote>
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<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285
Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133
<a href="mailto:alvin@netvel.net" target="_blank">alvin@netvel.net</a> ||
</pre>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Russell<br></div></div></div></div></div></div>