<div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:57 PM Alvin Starr via talk <<a href="mailto:talk@gtalug.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">talk@gtalug.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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On 12/17/19 2:27 PM, Russell Reiter via talk wrote:<br>
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| I wonder why, especially in this data stealing age, the
practice is not firmly<br>
| against the law?<br>
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Yes. And the boundaries clearly marked.<br>
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<div dir="auto">The problem is that its a matter of private law.
The government would essentially fetter itself if it actually
made it illegal for you to give out your SIN voluntarily. This
might be the case in settlement if someone has sued you, won
and now has the right to a full accounting of your income and
assets. </div>
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<div dir="auto">Enforcing laws is expensive and there is a
threshold which is bounded by economy of scale. As a general
matter of private law, caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) is
the rule.</div>
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<div dir="auto">Its kind of like the government is a national
park with a grand canyon running through it. The can put up
signs which say don't get too close to the edge or you may
fall in but they can't really stop you from jumping off the
edge. </div>
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Its not that I was giving out my SIN voluntarily. It was a
requirement of getting service from a telecom provider.<br>
Yes I could have refused to fill out the the application and walked
out of the store.<br>
But then I would not have had the telecom service that I needed at
the time.<br></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Yes you did volunteer the information when they asked for it. The law presumed you have a choice in the matter. There are enough providers who don't collect SIN numbers that you could have used one of them. You jumped into the canyon by wanting services immediately. There is an old saw that says decide in haste, repent at leisure. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The law of contracts is offer and acceptance. Getting a cell phone contract is not the same as applying for a loan. The business may do a credit check and withdraw the offer if you don't meet a credit threshold, but they don't need a SIN number to do that. However having the SIN it makes it easier for them to get access to your funds through the court system if you owe them a significant debt.</div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
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So now the Telecom provider has my SIN.<br>
Are they free to use as they wish?<br></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">No, they have a fiduciary duty to you to protect that sensitive information. It was collected as a kind of trust article. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
Could they use it as my client ID and paste it on the front the
bills they send out to me?<br></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I think if they did that you could sue for injunctive relief, assuming that they didn't reveal that was their contractual policy at the outset. It would be on your copy of the contract if they did.</div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
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Part of my concern was that enough personal information for someone
to completely steal my identity was provided to a call center in a
third world country with little or no oversight.<br></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You don't have to live in a marginalized area of the world to suffer from a lack of oversight in your own actions. Just saying ...</div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">How did that happen? You purchased the service from a brick and mortar location, in Canada I presume. Accounting and financial data are different than technical and service information. It would be highly unlikely that a service technician or even a first tier collection representative would have access to your complete data file.</div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
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The carrier should have an obligation of care with my information.</div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
But the only obligation that the carrier has is to maximize the
shareholder value.</div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cybercare of personal information starts with the individual, unfortunately it's all downhill from there.</div><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br>
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<pre cols="72">--
Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285
Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133
<a href="mailto:alvin@netvel.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">alvin@netvel.net</a> ||
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