<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 11:56 AM, CLIFFORD ILKAY <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org" target="_blank">clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="">On 04/17/2014 10:01 AM, David Collier-Brown wrote:<br>
> ... The next step is to figure out what to do about it.<br>
<br>
</div>How about ditching Yahoo? Both Yahoo and Hotmail/MSN/Live and any ISP<br>
that uses them in the background are huge pains for e-commerce systems<br>
that rely on sending confirmation links to users. More often than not,<br>
those emails will either get misclassified as junk or never get<br>
delivered at all. Recently, I was speaking with someone who hadn't<br>
received an email I'd sent to his Sympatico (Microsoft backed). He asked<br>
me to send it again and he didn't receive it. He said he has a Gmail<br>
address so I sent the same email to both his Sympatico and his Gmail<br>
account. He got it immediately at his Gmail account. It never reached<br>
his Sympatico account. It's nowhere to be found and it's not in his junk<br>
or inbox folders. He realized then that he's probably been missing<br>
important emails from people for years and he switched to Gmail. I'm not<br>
advocating for Gmail, though it's a perfectly capable mail system. I'm<br>
just saying that in the universe of possibilities, Yahoo and Microsoft's<br>
various free email offerings are the worst possible choices.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Agreed.<br><br></div><div>One way to regard this is to consider the change to be "censorship", and, to some degree, a matter of "human rights" warranting protest.  I don't think that is well-representative of what's up at Yahoo!, since censorship is usually expected to involve the suppression of speech by a governmental organization.  Yahoo! is a company operating in a foreign country, not a governing organization.<br>
<br></div><div>Another view (less than "censorship") might be to consider this to be a form of "editorial selection", though I think that overstates the amount of intentionality involved.<br><br></div>
<div>I'll quote from Jan Wieck on this from another list which has been discussing this from a more purely practical perspective.<br><br>"<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">One aspect of the whole thing is that the DMARC proposal is two years</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">old and it was well known that this (breaking mailing lists) would be a</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">side effect of it. The powers that be at Yahoo! went ahead with it</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">anyways. This can mean only one thing. That Yahoo! does not want users</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">with a @</span><a href="http://yahoo.com/" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">yahoo.com</a><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none"><span class=""> </span>address to participate in third party mailing lists.</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline!important;float:none">If that is what they want, then that is what they should get."<br>
<br></span></div></div>A consequence of this is that Yahoo! will lose some paying users.  (Jan was, until quite recently, one such.)<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">For those that have been paying users, this is providing a compelling reason to shift to some more satisfactory service provider.  For those that haven't been paying, well, your service exists at the sufferance of a company whose finances I can't properly comprehend.  Doesn't seem like something worth depending on to me.  (In contrast, I understand how Google can get value from its free service offerings.)<br>
<br></div><div class="gmail_extra">FYI, there is a relevant GTALUG practicality; we probably need to block subscribers "@<a href="http://yahoo.com">yahoo.com</a>" from posting to this list, as the DMARC configuration will mean that mail from those subscribers is liable to cause us problems by virtue of bouncing around with the risk of encouraging mail routers to block US, which is distinctly undesirable.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra">-- <br>When confronted by a difficult problem, solve it by reducing it to the<br>question, "How would the Lone Ranger handle this?"<br>
</div></div>